Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 4 - SailNet Community
 1723Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 5317 Old 11-25-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 272
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Interesting thread... Everything bad about steel.. Nothing much bad about aluminum??

Clearly aluminum does not have the deterministic fatigue resistance of steel. Aluminum seems to be sensative to not just corrosion, but also disimilar metals and electrolysis.

No doubt, some like steel, some like wood, some like grp and some like aluminum. But don't think for a moment that aluminum like others does not have serious issues.
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-25-2012 at 08:29 PM.
BryceGTX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 5317 Old 11-25-2012
tdw
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
tdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 16,479
Thanks: 15
Thanked 103 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Of course aluminium has issues if not treated correctly but I think the gist of this thread is that overall it comes out on top as a building material other than the required buckazoids.

Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

Malo 39 Classic
tdw is offline  
post #33 of 5317 Old 11-25-2012
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 96
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ah, that secret rot called rust.

No, fiberglass, laid up like a Morgan OI 47', is the better transoceanic hull. Fiberglass reinforced with carbon-fiber core matting would be really strong, and perhaps could be made thinner.

I had read of someone building their own boat of copper, suppose that would cost too much today. Aluminum is an interesting idea, but concealed corrosion along welds also a problem. Maybe an aluminum catamaran or trimaran is an idea. No sticky compass problems, what?
cherev is offline  
post #34 of 5317 Old 11-26-2012
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,441
Thanks: 59
Thanked 68 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherev View Post
No, fiberglass, laid up like a Morgan OI 47', is the better transoceanic hull.
No such animal ever existed. There were a few OI 49's built but they are quite rare.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
post #35 of 5317 Old 11-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 713
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
No such animal ever existed. There were a few OI 49's built but they are quite rare.
Statement still stands, that's the better hull.
xymotic is offline  
post #36 of 5317 Old 11-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 272
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdw View Post
aluminum... overall it comes out on top as a building material
I tend to view materials as useful for a particular application. Aluminum may be useful if you are particularly concerned about weight. It appears the application for this thread is a cruiser. Seems unlikely justification for aluminum.

Aluminum structures need careful testing to quantify their fatigue life. The Airline industry makes use of an incredible quantity of aluminum for wings, landing gear and body. And they characterize the fatigue strength and resulting life with sophisticated structual test systems than often contain 100s of actuators. Quite impressive test systems.

So do these aluminum boat manufacturers subject their hulls to similar fatigue tests? Probably not. These multi-channel test systems cost tens of millions of dollars. Well beyond the wallet of the boat builders.

We have all seen the fatigue cracks on masts and booms on sail boats. Many of us have small aluminum boats with numerous fatigue cracks in various load points. And some of us have seen aluminum hulls from older boats with numerous cracks.

Even with the incredibly careful testing the airline industry subjects their planes to, they have fatigue cracks in the structures. Careful inspections catch most problems before the plane falls out of the sky. The automotive manufacturers perform similar fatigue testing.

If weight is the major concern, yes you might like an aluminum hull.. but really.. a cruiser is hardly weight sensitive. On the contrary, the heavier boat will be invariably more comfortable which cruisers eventually learn.

Wood rots, steel rusts, aluminum cracks/corrodes, fiberglass coring fails. Each material comes out on top for some particular application.
Take your pick.. just understand the limitations..
Bryce
davidpm, Brent Swain and Razcar like this.

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-27-2012 at 08:43 PM.
BryceGTX is offline  
post #37 of 5317 Old 11-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgbrown View Post
Do many builders here zinc flame the hulls?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
Several of my boats have been flame sprayed with zinc, totally eliminating corrosion. Friends have also used a mixture of zinc and aluminium, after much research showed that to be best.
I flame sprayed one 36 with zinc. I found that the spray starts to go on like fine sandpaper, and there is very little heat buildup, barely warming the plate. When it starts to spatter, and you get more heat buildup, its time to take the gun apart and clean the tiny holes in it.The more frequently you do this, the better the job.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #38 of 5317 Old 11-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherev View Post
Ah, that secret rot called rust.

No, fiberglass, laid up like a Morgan OI 47', is the better transoceanic hull. Fiberglass reinforced with carbon-fiber core matting would be really strong, and perhaps could be made thinner.

I had read of someone building their own boat of copper, suppose that would cost too much today. Aluminum is an interesting idea, but concealed corrosion along welds also a problem. Maybe an aluminum catamaran or trimaran is an idea. No sticky compass problems, what?
One of the big advantages of steel is zero deck leaks, ever, as welding down your hardware eliminates any chance of them ever leaking. No matter how rough it gets, you always have a dry bunk to sleep in at the end of the day, on a well insulated steel boat. There is no way you can get bolted down gear on a fibreglass deck that permanently water proof, with zero chance of leaking . Fibreglass decks always end up leaking, eventually.
There is no way you can get a fibreglass boat as impact resistant as a steel hull. That is why so many former fibreglass boat cruisers tend to gravitate towards steel . The increase in peace of mind, when blasting along at hull speed on a moonless night, in a steel hull, has to be experienced to be appreciated.
nemier, EvelynL and Razcar like this.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #39 of 5317 Old 11-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Can you elaborate on that? In my experience the dinghy takes more than that. Are you meaning the difference compared to glass boats?
No, total, grinding out the odd rust spot and giving it several coats of epoxy. Every three or four years I give her hull and decks a coat of enamel, at around $27 a gallon for Home Hardware fishboat paint. Being a twin keeler I scrape the bottom from time to time, about ten minutes worth of work.In 28 years I've only hauled out twice.



Can S/S be welded properly to mild steel? Having cleats, stanchions, chainplates, bow rollers etc. all one piece with the hull would be a BIG advantage - think of all the caulking you'd save!
Stainless can be easily and reliably welded to steel with stainless type 316 rods. All my gear, cleats, handrails, hatch hinges, mooring bitts, bow roller , windvane, anchor winch,chainplates ,stanchions ,etc ,are welded down. Zero risk of them ever leaking.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #40 of 5317 Old 11-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
Brent- where can I see some of the designs you've done. I can't find your website. Love to see more. Got anything in the 40ish range, center cockpit ketch? We're going to be a family of four and would like it to be a go anywhere boat- around the marble perhaps.
Just do a search under origamiboats and pick the first one ( yahoo groups )
You will see a photo of one of my centre cockpit 40 footers at Fanning Island, in the photo section there.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 05-20-2015 12:05 AM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome