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  #31  
Old 11-25-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Interesting thread... Everything bad about steel.. Nothing much bad about aluminum??

Clearly aluminum does not have the deterministic fatigue resistance of steel. Aluminum seems to be sensative to not just corrosion, but also disimilar metals and electrolysis.

No doubt, some like steel, some like wood, some like grp and some like aluminum. But don't think for a moment that aluminum like others does not have serious issues.
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-25-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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  #32  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Of course aluminium has issues if not treated correctly but I think the gist of this thread is that overall it comes out on top as a building material other than the required buckazoids.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ah, that secret rot called rust.

No, fiberglass, laid up like a Morgan OI 47', is the better transoceanic hull. Fiberglass reinforced with carbon-fiber core matting would be really strong, and perhaps could be made thinner.

I had read of someone building their own boat of copper, suppose that would cost too much today. Aluminum is an interesting idea, but concealed corrosion along welds also a problem. Maybe an aluminum catamaran or trimaran is an idea. No sticky compass problems, what?
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  #34  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by cherev View Post
No, fiberglass, laid up like a Morgan OI 47', is the better transoceanic hull.
No such animal ever existed. There were a few OI 49's built but they are quite rare.
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Old 11-27-2012
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
No such animal ever existed. There were a few OI 49's built but they are quite rare.
Statement still stands, that's the better hull.
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  #36  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
aluminum... overall it comes out on top as a building material
I tend to view materials as useful for a particular application. Aluminum may be useful if you are particularly concerned about weight. It appears the application for this thread is a cruiser. Seems unlikely justification for aluminum.

Aluminum structures need careful testing to quantify their fatigue life. The Airline industry makes use of an incredible quantity of aluminum for wings, landing gear and body. And they characterize the fatigue strength and resulting life with sophisticated structual test systems than often contain 100s of actuators. Quite impressive test systems.

So do these aluminum boat manufacturers subject their hulls to similar fatigue tests? Probably not. These multi-channel test systems cost tens of millions of dollars. Well beyond the wallet of the boat builders.

We have all seen the fatigue cracks on masts and booms on sail boats. Many of us have small aluminum boats with numerous fatigue cracks in various load points. And some of us have seen aluminum hulls from older boats with numerous cracks.

Even with the incredibly careful testing the airline industry subjects their planes to, they have fatigue cracks in the structures. Careful inspections catch most problems before the plane falls out of the sky. The automotive manufacturers perform similar fatigue testing.

If weight is the major concern, yes you might like an aluminum hull.. but really.. a cruiser is hardly weight sensitive. On the contrary, the heavier boat will be invariably more comfortable which cruisers eventually learn.

Wood rots, steel rusts, aluminum cracks/corrodes, fiberglass coring fails. Each material comes out on top for some particular application.
Take your pick.. just understand the limitations..
Bryce
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Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-27-2012 at 08:43 PM.
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  #37  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Jgbrown View Post
Do many builders here zinc flame the hulls?

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
Several of my boats have been flame sprayed with zinc, totally eliminating corrosion. Friends have also used a mixture of zinc and aluminium, after much research showed that to be best.
I flame sprayed one 36 with zinc. I found that the spray starts to go on like fine sandpaper, and there is very little heat buildup, barely warming the plate. When it starts to spatter, and you get more heat buildup, its time to take the gun apart and clean the tiny holes in it.The more frequently you do this, the better the job.
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  #38  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by cherev View Post
Ah, that secret rot called rust.

No, fiberglass, laid up like a Morgan OI 47', is the better transoceanic hull. Fiberglass reinforced with carbon-fiber core matting would be really strong, and perhaps could be made thinner.

I had read of someone building their own boat of copper, suppose that would cost too much today. Aluminum is an interesting idea, but concealed corrosion along welds also a problem. Maybe an aluminum catamaran or trimaran is an idea. No sticky compass problems, what?
One of the big advantages of steel is zero deck leaks, ever, as welding down your hardware eliminates any chance of them ever leaking. No matter how rough it gets, you always have a dry bunk to sleep in at the end of the day, on a well insulated steel boat. There is no way you can get bolted down gear on a fibreglass deck that permanently water proof, with zero chance of leaking . Fibreglass decks always end up leaking, eventually.
There is no way you can get a fibreglass boat as impact resistant as a steel hull. That is why so many former fibreglass boat cruisers tend to gravitate towards steel . The increase in peace of mind, when blasting along at hull speed on a moonless night, in a steel hull, has to be experienced to be appreciated.
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  #39  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Can you elaborate on that? In my experience the dinghy takes more than that. Are you meaning the difference compared to glass boats?
No, total, grinding out the odd rust spot and giving it several coats of epoxy. Every three or four years I give her hull and decks a coat of enamel, at around $27 a gallon for Home Hardware fishboat paint. Being a twin keeler I scrape the bottom from time to time, about ten minutes worth of work.In 28 years I've only hauled out twice.



Can S/S be welded properly to mild steel? Having cleats, stanchions, chainplates, bow rollers etc. all one piece with the hull would be a BIG advantage - think of all the caulking you'd save!
Stainless can be easily and reliably welded to steel with stainless type 316 rods. All my gear, cleats, handrails, hatch hinges, mooring bitts, bow roller , windvane, anchor winch,chainplates ,stanchions ,etc ,are welded down. Zero risk of them ever leaking.
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  #40  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by CaptainQuiet View Post
Brent- where can I see some of the designs you've done. I can't find your website. Love to see more. Got anything in the 40ish range, center cockpit ketch? We're going to be a family of four and would like it to be a go anywhere boat- around the marble perhaps.
Just do a search under origamiboats and pick the first one ( yahoo groups )
You will see a photo of one of my centre cockpit 40 footers at Fanning Island, in the photo section there.
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