Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 403 - SailNet Community
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post #4021 of 5317 Old 03-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Mr. Mann:
Yes, THUNDERHEAD has been a top favorite of mine going back to when I was a teenager. I have always been a Rhodes fan. CARINA just might be my all time Fav.
Many thanks for the link.
Looks like a small Hammond organ but I can't be sure. The stops look like Hammond stops.
Ahh.. Carina - unfort Ive raced against her many times and have seen her stern while owing her time. Cant say I have the same perspective.

A similar boat is Coup D'etat, a 1972 McCurdy Rhodes (48 ft) aluminum which was recently completely restored on the East Coast. Fantastic job.
Documented here. COUP D'ETAT (USA414)



McCurdy - Rhodes did fine work.

Sorry to digress

Mr. A. Mann
(Former owner of a 1976 Seafarer 31 MK I (McCurdy Rhodes)
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Last edited by A. Mann; 03-03-2014 at 12:12 PM.
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post #4022 of 5317 Old 03-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Very nice. We won't see many more like that built today. It has the look of a classic American yacht.

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post #4023 of 5317 Old 03-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
That skeg could probably use a bit of beefing up. Many high aspect skegs on steel boats are grossly under built. Extending the root further forward will give it more bearing on the hull. Then, putting a 6 inch wide fillet strip on a 45 degree angle, connecting the skeg to the hull, will spread the load athwartships over the hull. Inside, a couple of 3/16th plate webs , six inches deep amidships , going at least as far as the first chine, will spread the load across the hull. If you put longitudinal gussets, connecting the weld line , from the fillet pieces outside, to the webs ,it will give you the structural equivalent of having continued the skeg sides thru, and slotted them into the webs.
On a new boat, the strongest way to built a high aspect ratio skeg is to run the skeg right thru, and weld it to the cockpit floor.
In the bare steel stage is a good time to weld in a keel cooler, and benefit by one of the huge advantages of a metal hull, the elimination of the heat exchanger, seawater intake and salt water pump, and outlet , a huge source of engine problems . You can build one inside existing frames and longitudinals by fully welding them to the hull, on the inside of the cooling tank. Then you weld flatbar on edge, to make the coolant flow back and forth over as much hull distance as possible . 2 inch tacks every 6 inches is plenty of weld for that job Then you make the cover plate. You can suck that down with bolts welded to the hull and passing thru holes in the cover plate. After you have bolted it down, you weld the bolts and nuts up solidly. Using a smooth flowing rod like 6013 lets you see any holes and potential leaks easily. While I have found that it takes 1.5 sq ft per ten hp , doing a huge overkill on surface area is a good idea and wont hurt anything . Run your hot water, coming form the engine, in the top and take your colder water from the bottom. Using anti freeze helps reduce corrosion, but adding a bit of water soluable machine oil is a good idea, and eliminates corrosion.
Make several of these cooling tanks. If you don't use them all, they wont hurt anything.
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Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 03-04-2014 at 05:43 PM.
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post #4024 of 5317 Old 03-04-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

With a steel hull, any hot pipes running thru it (exhaust, stove pipe, etc)should have stainless plate, set in flush, for the first two or three inches around it. Even with a wet exhaust, you still see rust around the exhaust pipe, due to slightly elevated temperatures around it. Every ten degrees rise in temperature increases the corrosion rate considerably.
With a 1 1/2 inch sch 40 exhaust running thru the transom, I like to weld a 2 1/2 inch length of 4 inch SS tube centred around where it runs thru, to make a good place to end the insulation. A similar piece of tube around the stove pipe makes a good way to finish the panelling. Sometimes you can find an SS angle flange, for an excellent finish to the panelling.
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post #4025 of 5317 Old 03-04-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I like Brent's posts where he lays down nuggets of practical steel boatbuilding experience. Even I can understand. I like it when I understand.

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post #4026 of 5317 Old 03-04-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent how to you do instruments and thru hulls. Have seen instruments in sea chests and thru hulls as simple stand pipes. Seems this is easy to do in metal boats.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #4027 of 5317 Old 03-04-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Brent how to you do instruments and thru hulls. Have seen instruments in sea chests and thru hulls as simple stand pipes. Seems this is easy to do in metal boats.

For thru hulls, I simply weld in stainless sch 40 pipe nipples. I have been doing that for over 40 years with no problems of any kind. I was once moored off a shipyard in Auckland, which had tried every kind of thru hull they could think of and, after decades of steel boat building, found that a welded in stainless pipe nipple was the best and simplest . I have had no problem whatever with them. Another advantage is you don't have to run them at 90 degrees to the hull plate. You can run them vertical, which can save a lot of space. I use stainless type 316 ball valves on them, which have given me no problems in over 40 years . Putting a stainless sch 40 standpipe in the ball valve eliminates the chance of sinking by a bad hose or hose connection. I have done that too. Or you can put the ball valve at the top of the stand pipe .
I have welded in transducer mount housings, no problem , but a couple of tabs for a transom mount fish finder also works well.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 03-04-2014 at 07:33 PM.
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post #4028 of 5317 Old 03-05-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
For thru hulls, I simply weld in stainless sch 40 pipe nipples. I have been doing that for over 40 years with no problems of any kind. I was once moored off a shipyard in Auckland, which had tried every kind of thru hull they could think of and, after decades of steel boat building, found that a welded in stainless pipe nipple was the best and simplest . I have had no problem whatever with them. Another advantage is you don't have to run them at 90 degrees to the hull plate. You can run them vertical, which can save a lot of space. I use stainless type 316 ball valves on them, which have given me no problems in over 40 years . Putting a stainless sch 40 standpipe in the ball valve eliminates the chance of sinking by a bad hose or hose connection. I have done that too. Or you can put the ball valve at the top of the stand pipe .
I have welded in transducer mount housings, no problem , but a couple of tabs for a transom mount fish finder also works well.

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post #4029 of 5317 Old 03-05-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
With a steel hull, any hot pipes running thru it (exhaust, stove pipe, etc)should have stainless plate, set in flush, for the first two or three inches around it. Even with a wet exhaust, you still see rust around the exhaust pipe, due to slightly elevated temperatures around it. Every ten degrees rise in temperature increases the corrosion rate considerably.
With a 1 1/2 inch sch 40 exhaust running thru the transom, I like to weld a 2 1/2 inch length of 4 inch SS tube centred around where it runs thru, to make a good place to end the insulation. A similar piece of tube around the stove pipe makes a good way to finish the panelling. Sometimes you can find an SS angle flange, for an excellent finish to the panelling.
In the bare steel stage is a good place to weld 1/8th inch stainless doubler plates in the bow ,where the anchor would chip the paint, instead of the long flimsy bow rollers some use. I see cruise ships have finally clued into this, and are now covering their anchor spots with stainless, after decades of repainting over the rust stains in every port.
Such plates, bolted on, also work well on plastic and wooden boats.

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post #4030 of 5317 Old 03-05-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent most modern grp boats have ss as substrate for bow rollers/sprite. Mine's 318 and not a speck of rust in spite of using only chain for rode. It's a casting I believe and quite pretty. The short sprite keeps anchor away from hull even when we run over the anchor a bit so the hull has remained pristine. Putting plate up there would be unpleasing to my eye but I see why it would be a good idea for many boats and have seen it done without detracting from appearance.

s/v Hippocampus
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