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  #4061  
Old 03-10-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
Yep it's hard stuff. Various dense Eucalypt species ( gum) were and still are used for boat building and marine structures here. It's heavy stuff and very dense.

Steel hulls are lighter than those built of dense hardwoods for the same size and displacement. The Eucalypt hardwoods despite being tough are prone to rotting if fresh water is trapped anywhere. But they are very stable timbers.

Barques and barquentines, brigs and brigantines, whalers, barges, coastal lighters were often framed and planked below the WL with these hard dense
timbers. But only the steel ones survive, often after years as a breakwater or wreck.
Some parts of iron tea clippers from the 1800s are still intact , in Royston BC. Irving Johnsons Yankee went ashore on Rarotonga, on a reef totally exposed to the open sea, in 1964. I walked around her in 1973 and she was basically intact and in one piece. How many hurricanes, at the rate of several per year on average, had she been thru in that time? Trismus , a sistership to Moitessiers Joshua, blew ashore on Rangiroa in 1975 , pounded there for ten years, before the locals got her off and, with minimum work, used her to ship coconuts around the lagoon. None of these boats had a full time crew maintaining them, as did the wooden boats mentioned.
Another sisterhip, Pygmalion blew ashore in Spain, and after days of up to 80 knot winds on an exposed lee shore , was still bone dry in the bilge with zero damage, when they lifted her of and moved her to a travel lift and relaunched her.
Any wooden boat would have broke up in 20 minutes in these conditions.

Last edited by Brent Swain; 03-13-2014 at 04:50 PM.
  #4062  
Old 03-10-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Some parts of iron tea clippers from the 1800s are still intact , in Royston BC
..as are clippers "Cutty Sark" and "City of Adelaide" of the same era - both mostly made from dead vegetation.
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Last edited by Classic30; 03-10-2014 at 10:38 PM.
  #4063  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Steve told a friend a month ago that he had Silas crosby sold .He just confirmed that.

Last edited by Brent Swain; 03-13-2014 at 04:37 PM.
  #4064  
Old 03-10-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Steve told a friend a while back that he had Silas crosby sold .He just confirmed that.
Wait - you didn't answer my questions:

1. When exactly did he sell it? (It's still for sale on his site.)
2. Exactly how much did he get for it?
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  #4065  
Old 03-11-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
..as are clippers "Cutty Sark" and "City of Adelaide" of the same era - both mostly made from dead vegetation.
And the only two remaining composite clippers.

The structure is all metal, the keelsons and all framing in both ships are metal and that's why they survived even as hulks. Even recent fires

The global structure wouldn't have been feasible without the metal and the wood is just the hull shell with those ships. As iron plate became cheaper and more available shipbuilding quickly switched from timber cladding to iron and steel plate.

Many of the wooden ships were built for a short commercial (or military) life out of cheaply available timbers and cheap labor. But the clipper ships were well built and they needed composite construction which quickly gave way to the superior all metal construction,
Many old iron hulks would have been around today relatively intact but they were broken for their iron in WW1. Probably partially lie scattered over parts of France.
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Last edited by MikeJohns; 03-11-2014 at 02:05 AM.
  #4066  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by MikeJohns View Post
And the only two remaining composite clippers.

The structure is all metal, the keelsons and all framing in both ships are metal and that's why they survived even as hulks. Even recent fires
Meh.. A minor technicality.
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  #4067  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Some of these old wrecks were and may still be a wonderful source of quality teak.Brian Walker lifted most of the decks of the old Lipton's tea clipper in Bowen sound ( Or perhaps it was the Sacramento) to make the Passing Cloud (68 ft schooner) All the teak on my Thane was resawn timber from the bulkhead of some unknown wreck left at VMD in Victoria. Old ships doors sometimes find their way into recycle joints When every part of your vessel has a story to tell ?? well you just can't but that!
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  #4068  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

With nearly 100% of shipping being built in steel there can be little argument at present it is the preferred material for ships. This site concerns boats. Here given the physics of relativity small craft ( even a 70' mega yacht with fit on the deck of a ship making it a boat) the material requirements are different. With boats weight per unit volume of the material creates unfavorable downstream implications. This is true for M/V s but even more so for S/Vs. Question remains are these constraints sufficient to build in other materials. Steel can create a reasonably fast sailing yacht ( British Steel etc.) but one still is left with the relatively poor performance in vessels less than ~50' where poor d/l difficulties achieving good RM without untoward amounts of ballast and inability of easily constructing complex curves more severely limit design. Even a solid grp hull ( although it has non structural closed cell foam inside to prevent sweating) like mine allows one to sail at hull speed in moderate wind or beat effectively to allow good vmg. 200m days are not uncommon.With virtually all modern grp boats incorporating watertight bulkheads forward Brent's concern about debris is nearly a moot point. Failures of navigation will result in devastation for any vessel ( talk with the Italian cruise ships line) Most sailors love to sail. But most sailors also like to get there before the food runs out.
Brent has been repetitively asked for documentation of the performance and characteristics of his boats. Simple gross measures such as point of vanishing stability, sailing polars, RM, D/L etc. He has failed to do so. As Smack has implied this leads one to believe although they maybe little brick out houses the performance is so poor that any sailor would go mad ( perhaps that's it) trying to effectively cruise on one of his boats. Being unable to point or get anywhere except running in a strong breeze driving these folks nuts. Other designers in steel recognize these limitations. Plate on frame results in less total material and therefore less hull weight. Plate on frame with use of rolled plate allows for more flexibility in design allowing for an more effective hull. Plate on frame allows for no upward limitation in size. Plate on frame is the method used in almost all steel construction so regardless of where you are it will be familiar to any reasonable yard.
Brent has yet to address these fundamental issues
better performance of grp or Al then Fe
better resale for grp or AL then Fe
better performance of plate on frame than origami
Better durability of neglected Al or grp then Fe.
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  #4069  
Old 03-12-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Another nice little steel boat: 1996 Schreiber Boats George Buehler 'Jack' sailboat for sale in Florida
Probably very slow, but at least quite inexpensive.
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  #4070  
Old 03-13-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I just meta guy on a Foukes 39, in Maple Bay haulout, who was very critical of my boats the last time I met him. Now, after a circumnavigation around both Cape Horn and the Cape of Good Hope, and extensive cruising the Aleutians, he said his greatest regret was not following advice to do it in a brentboat.
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