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  #401  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jon:
I like to think I have ears that good. I can hear my dogs fart.
I have a fabulous cartridge now an Immedia Scala. You can Google it. I'd be a bit embarrassed to say what it cost. But I'm getting old. I look for my pleasures where I can find them, Well reproduced music is a passion of mine.

I think now I will go down and Play my new Jackson Browne lp.
I need to wait up for my evil cat. Pumpkin the killer.

Smackers:
You have two boys. I know it's very hard to think that you are "lucky". I know. But look at this pic and imagine what the future may hold for you. How can I look at Violet and not think that I am lucky?
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Last edited by bobperry; 08-05-2013 at 11:02 PM.
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  #402  
Old 08-05-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I'm beyond the tinitus stage! I'm into full bore HA's from driving lawn mower, weed eater, chain saws. speaker in my dumptruck next to my ear. drivers window down due to no AC, have typical left ear truckers ear due to that. Had an old skid steer, I could wear muffs and ear plugs and after 4-5 hrs on that thing my ears would be ringing......

Joys of having $5g in and around ones ears to try and hear, and even then one can not hear! High pitch sounds? all they do is hurt my head literally! major bang bang from one side of the head to the other, thats how bad my ears are.

Marty
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  #403  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

'Pumpkin the killer' , Somehow that doesnt sound right ;-)
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  #404  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Watch out Pumpkin!
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  #405  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Trust me jak. She's the feral cat we found three years ago and she is still a killer. She is one of the most sensitive and loving pets I have ever had the pleasure of sharing my house with. But she's a killer.

Marty:
Come on down to the shack and I will restore your ears in one weekend. I'll feed you well too. I drink you well too. Just pick a wekend.
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  #406  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob, For me that would be up. If I went down to see you, I would have to go to oz, then thru the south pole, up the other side to the north pole, and back down to you. Knowing my luck, in Oz I would have to pickup some funky marsupial we know to get me back here. THAT in and of itself would be a scary issue! If I got lost to the east, then smackers would probably fall instep......talk about a scarier issue! smackers and TD in the same place and time! oh dear oh me oh my!

WOuld be better to go up, then it is only 17 miles, not sure who is between here and there.......tenuki, possibly Dodenja.........

Marty
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  #407  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Anytime Marty. I'm here almost all the time. Going sailing tomorrow.
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  #408  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Smackers:
You have two boys. I know it's very hard to think that you are "lucky". I know. But look at this pic and imagine what the future may hold for you. How can I look at Violet and not think that I am lucky?
Wow. Bob, she is absolutely a little slice of heaven.

I am lucky. Focusing on that keeps me out of that "pit" that's always there. I've had a crappy few days. Then, this morning, I remembered how much I am in love with my boys...how happy they make me. The weight lifted immediately.

You're right...you and I...we're lucky.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Mild steel is 60,000 PSI tensile and compression strength . That is 11250 per linear inch for 3/16th plate. Multiply that by the 96 inches in the side of one of my twin keels. That is 1.08 million pounds per side, times four keels sides.
How are you going to break that with a boat under 20,000 lbs?
Just saw two navy 100 footers in Heroit bay. 3/16th hull plate on 100 ft navy ships . And you say the same plate thickness is too light for a 36 foot pleasure boat? You say that a boat which could survive 16 days pounding in 8 to 12 ft surf on the west coast of the Baja, or pounding across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef in big surf, or colliding with a freighter, or hitting the sharp corner of a sunken barge at hull speed, all with minimal damage, is not strong enough? Now that's a stretch!
My hulls are all single thickness, 1/8th for the decks cabin, etc, 3/16th for the hull ,1/4 for the keel sides, and half inch for the keel bottom ( with 4500 lbs of lead ballast poured on top)
Layering steel is a big mistake, guaranteeing corrosion between the layers unless totally sealed.

A good whack with a sledge hammer and a centre punch on lower parts of keels, etc, where corrosion is most likely, is a good starting point on buying a steel boat. If it doesn't give, you have enough thickness there.
Structural failures of steel boats under 40 feet are extremely rare. Your "Invisible " fractures have zero chance of ever causing any problems in steel boats under 40 feet in their lifetimes.
How does such "invisibly fractured" steel compare in strength to a copper fastening in red cedar every six inches, or six inches of plastic?
Brent, I hate to tell you but your math is extremely flawed. PSI is pounds per square inch, not linear inch. A36 mild steel, and that is the most common, is 36,000 PSI, linear inches could be twenty miles and it would still be a minimum of 36,000 and a maximum of 80,000 PSI in every single inch of it. The 80K PSI is not likely to happen, it would rarely test out at over 46K PSI and even that would vary greatly from one square inch to the next.

How do you calculate the hull stress loads for your vessels? What are the machinery and static loads that you figure in when you are making your calculations? What is the wave moment that you use for calculations on maximum stress loads? What wave heights? How do you calculate the stiffeners needed in the keel, hull, and deck plating loads? How do you do the hogging and sagging stress calculations on your vessels? Do you understand that your vessels, even at 30' do undergo these stress loads and that the Dynamic Amplification Factor on the steel is not just longitudinal, but it is also a shear load, a buckling load, a bending load and an impact load, even when your hull and keel are not hitting a reef somewhere?

I have an updated copy of a little workbook that you will enjoy here, if the math is too tough on you please consider a tutor, because as a ship designer this little bit of math is a bit important.

http://www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmi...Spring2009.pdf


The rest of the guys will probably find it a good refresher on some math, and very informative. Especially on page 67 where we find this little paragraph. I think it might be an excellent thing if some people might read this and withdraw claims of absolutely no structural damage having been done to vessel which grind themselves on reefs like strippers on a pole.

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Engineers, in the fulfillment of their professional duties, shall:
1. Hold paramount the safety, health and welfare of the public.
2. Perform services only in areas of their competence.
3. Issue public statements only in an objective and truthful manner.
4. Act for each employer or client as faithful agents or trustees.
5. Avoid deceptive acts.
6. Conduct themselves honorably, responsibly, ethically, and lawfully so as to enhance the honor,
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  #410  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise."
― Joseph Goebbels

Fijian reef, Baha beach Fijian reef, Baha beach,beach,smash, bang,boom,tensile, smensile. Brent sales technique 101.
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