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Pros and cons of steel sailboats

909K views 5K replies 127 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
 
#1,727 ·
Tom:
Exactly. When you get either bow or stern on with the boat it is kind of odd because the boat has less beam than many modern 30'ers. But even yesterday, out of the shed, the boat is still in slings and you cannot get a clear view of the uninterupted hull. We will have to be patient and wait about two more weeks I suspect.

Kim and I joke about being overtaken by FANCIS LEE. It's going to look like a really fast 30'er coming up on yout stern.

I'm also anxious to see the cove stripe on the boat. We are bringing in a specialist Dr. of stripology for this job.

Paulo:
Technical files sent vie email this morning. Enjoy.
 
#1,731 ·
I am sure Mr Winston would have LUVED to play with Ruby! I could see them having a ball somewhere!

I do apologize for not bringing the eye blinders!

David, are you signed up for the styc fall regatta this weekend? two castro boats in nfs! you could make it 3 of 6! If not, I may have to sick mr winston on your. You know that would be a LONG slow painful death by licking!
 
#1,733 · (Edited)
Ratster:
Are you asking where we splashed the FRANCIS LEE?
That would be Salmon Bay, fresh water, just east of the Hiram Chittendon Locks in Seattle. Actually it's Ballard.

Thanks for asking that Rat. It reminded me that we splashed the boat in fresh water. All my calculations (yes I do calculate) are done for salt water. So if I adjust for the density of fresh water it means that had we floated the boat in salt water we would have floated .246205" higher!
We are 449.9 lbs. lighter than I thought. Lighter is always good.

Back in the old days under the IOR, displacement was taken as a function of hull depths at various points and of course a length factor. Freeboards were taken at the hull depth stations in order to work out the immersed depth. Boats were often taken into fresh water for these measurements to be taken so the boat would float "heavier".
 
#1,738 ·
Speaking of metal boats. Here is a Dorade vent with an unusual feature that I designed for the 50'er YONI. This is one of the last hand drawn details I did. I look back at my old drawings and I have to admite, I was pretty darn good at it. Thgis drawing is pencil and ink on mylar.

I know for a lot of people obsessing over nice drawings is seen to be silly. But I worked hard to hone my craft and the best way to sell a good idea is to present it with a great drawing. This is a simple little drawing, actually 6" =12" scale, but it shows some vitality and understanding.
 

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#1,739 ·
Give me some feedback here.

Do we close this thread (it will still be visible but read only) and start a couple of new ones, one to cover steel boats and another on general ... or does Paulo's Interesting thread already cover general boat design ?

I think there are plenty of us here that are well interested in seeing how BP's projects are progressing.

Thoughts ?
 
#1,747 ·
Give me some feedback here.

Do we close this thread (it will still be visible but read only) and start a couple of new ones, one to cover steel boats and another on general ... or does Paulo's Interesting thread already cover general boat design ?

I think there are plenty of us here that are well interested in seeing how BP's projects are progressing.

Thoughts ?
No, I do not cover steel boats on my thread. There are a small market for them and some designers that are specialized on them. I think it would be interesting to have a thread only about steel boats. I will be glad to contribute.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,740 ·
There's lots of useful information here, surrounded by friendly banter, and some less than friendly interactions.

I would encourage those who are providing the useful information to start new threads, and let this one continue rollicking along, until it dies on its own.

I have been guilty of some of the thread hijacking, but it was long gone before I did.

I should have taken Monday off and watched Kim's boat launch. That would have been beyond cool.
 
#1,741 ·
Well it has long since departed from the original OP topic, hasn't it?

I'd think a Sliver thread would be well received, and it would seem the steel debate has run its course. As entertaining as the BrentBash has been, it too has perhaps run its time (jmo)
 
#1,742 ·
The thread is called "pros and cons". Considering the "pros" included attacking any grp boat, their owner, their designer and in a new SN low, eventually one designer's wife, it seemed fitting to me to represent the "cons" side. Somebody had to.

I did not start the attack. I simply chose to defend grp boats and their owners. I owe my livelyhood to those people. Then the attacks got very personal. That was bizarre and had zero to do with yachts and yacht building or design. I came here to talk about boats. Simple as that.

Do what you like with the thread. On other threads the quality of posts is high and the mood congenial. I like that. I can do that.

But if there is more BS attacks posted count on it. I will go on the counter attack.

I do not see the "argument". Almost all of us just like all kinds of boats. Isn't that good enough?
 
#1,744 · (Edited)
As was has been famously said:

“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.”
― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

I would love to see how BP projects go. What is happening to the PerryPeaPod? Any update on that wonderfull looking 61 foot that PS is building?
 
#1,745 ·
I think it would be great if Bob would start a Sliver thread.
I also agree with Bob that Brent's attacks were out of line, and that it was appropriate of Bob to answer them.

It's unfortunate that Brent has tarnished his reputation in that manner on this and other forums. I think he has useful information to share.

I hope Bob starts other threads. I also hope that Brent contributes in a helpful manner when it is appropriate.
 
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#1,749 · (Edited)
Don't close it. There's no reason to.

It's a very valuable conversation and has generated a tremendous amount of interest. Some might view the squabbles herein as pure personality issues - but they're not. Not by any means. The conversation really has been about the material of steel and the extending mindset of that approach (origami, fear, self-sufficiency, etc.) from the beginning. So I don't even see this thread as drifting off its original topic for the most part (spousal abuse notwithstanding).

As for the pros and cons of steel, I feel pretty comfortable that most of Brent's ludicrous claims have been countered very well in this thread. He can't hide anymore - because his own words have done him in.

Apart from that BS, steel as a boat material choice (whether building or buying) has been shown to be just another option with its pros and cons by some very capable yacht designers such as Bob, Jeff, and others. This is very, very productive.

Now that the crap is cleaned up, it's up to interested parties to join the conversation and bring new questions and perspectives. Closing the thread would kill this for no good reason.
 
#1,754 ·
Like ALL things big and small, all industries have a person some do not want to be associated with, others try like hell to be associated with someone. Look at the dingalings on the supposed right coast! The idiots that are trying to shut us down, have brought the others down to there level!

Just my 02 of whatever monetary funds need to be used today!

Marty
 
#1,757 ·
And we are going sailing TOMORROW, (Saturday) on my buddy's 1D35 on Saturday, out of Everett.

It's a real hoot to sail.

Anybody else want to come?

David
 
#1,759 · (Edited)
Okay I am mostly a lurker who sailed a lot growing up in many different kinds of boats who hopes to get back to sailing in a year or so. A lot has changed since I last owned a big boat (in 1994) and since then I have only chartered a few big boats.

I will probably never own a BP boat, however one of the reasons I started cruising and gave up dingy racing (besides the wife and kids!) was reading about the adventures folks were having in boats like the Valiant 40 (another boat I lusted after, in addition to a PS37), reading about BPs work as it happens with his clients is a privilege. Many people on this thread (e.g., Paulo, Jeff H, Steve...) contribute their knowledge and experience making this thread very enjoyable; please keep it up either here or on other threads. There are two reads I have been reading for months now this and Interesting Sailboats and that seems good enough.

Regarding Brent, he adds a lot of color to these threads with his views and the responses that he solicits from the truly knowledgeable have certainly increased my understanding and have been equally useful to other folks. So Brent, just calm down and we can all learn and have fun.
 
#1,762 ·
yeah,. I come home from a long day driving.........edmonds to seattle, into a van, to tacoma, bremerton PT, PA,, poulsbo and Bainbridge to seattle, Home to edmonds. Spouse is no where to be found, nor is mr winston to sit on my lap! cats are here. :puke

Yes, a race tomorrow, but david is going out on a 1d tomorrow, probably will not be a lot o winds, but enough.........

oh yeah, I'm a blinken year older at 1358 today!

So what wa/is good about today?!?!?!?! oh yeah....as the kool aid man come bashing out of a wall.......I woke up! hopefully I wake up tomorrow too eh!!

Bob, are you doing the race your house race tomorrow? could be a sloow one, altho not as slow as foulweather bluff a couple of weeks ago.

Marty
 
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