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  #4221  
Old 03-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Here is a pic of my next project


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  #4222  
Old 03-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"Bio-digerster"?
I think I have one of those already.
I came with that as standard equipment.
Thanks be to God.

Shank:
But you know that you will always be known as the "people who live in the weird house".

At my beach I'm known as the "weird guywho lives in the shack".
I like that.
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  #4223  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by shank32095 View Post
We didn't even go there. Water was in abundance next to the waterfall and we went with a typical septic system with tank and drainfield. The septic systems in Costa Rica work quite well due to all the critters that break down the waste. The real challenge was due to the fact we have like 600 earthquakes per year and dealing with the reaction issues. The central column handles all the weight of reaction and the wind shear. It might be possible to cantilever in two directions but that would be quite the balancing act. Instead we used a combination of cantilevers plus threaded rods extending down from the top of the central column along all for corners. The design was nice and all but taking it to reality was pretty special. What made this deal practical was the fact is was far more labor intensive and consumed much less materials than a typical home. Labor in Costa Rica being like a tenth of what it would be in North Florida where I was a contractor. All of the lumber was teak taken from a large teak farm I own nearby. Labor in the states along with all the associated costs would have doomed this project from the jump.
Check out the books "Builders of the Pacific Coast" and "Tiny homes" by Lloyd Kahn.
True innovative genius!
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  #4224  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

[QUOTE=slap;1680801]Yet some of the above claims have been refuted over and over in this thread - as an example the so called T-boning incident. And many of the brentboats have had framing added to give them more strength - seems their owners didn't think that they were strong enough. Looks like your guesstimates weren't good enough for them.



Fiberglass boats have done the NW passage, and made thousands of ocean voyages with no incident. What I cannot figure out is why do brentboat owners run their boats into reefs, etc so often? If you compare the number of brentboats to the number of collisions, groundings, etc, it seems like there is a real problem with them.



Which has nothing to do with your lack of knowledge of the structural properties of materials or structural design.



Just because someone did a hack job at guessing the stability of a brentboat doesn't mean that you have the ability to do a real stability calculation (and understand what you are doing).


I was going through a boatyard today, when someone I was with mentioned to me that a nearby steel sailboat had been recently surveyed - the surveyor put his finger through the hull where it had rusted through.[/QUOTE)


Was that boat properly painted inside, or was it bare mill scale as most Foulkes and Fehr boats are? Is it the boat's fault if you launch a bare wood hull with zero paint on it, and the teredos eat it quickly? How long would it last in sea water?
You cant name a single brentboat which had transverse frames added, beyond the structural I specify in my plans. I know of none. That story was entirely made up. You wont find one!
Talk to Comox valley architect Cesar Caflish, who was giving directions in the T- boning incident, or Victoria artist Godfrey Stephens, the skipper.
None of those who refute, have any solid evidence of their claims, unlike the many in Grammas pub that day who witnessed it, and told me about it..
Brentboats hit reefs because, unlike Smacks boats, they don't spend 95% of their lives in marinas, only sailing in ideal conditions, and actually cruise; a lot! They don't live in abject fear of a bump .Its no big deal to bump a rock or two. ( Relaxed cruising). As Steve said "Shrug and carry on!"
If you aint been aground you aint been around!
I know of very few people who choose a plastic boat for the NW passage. Because you may be able to survive Niagra falls in a barrel, that doesn't mean doing it is a good idea.
Sure, many plastic boats do ocean passages, and some don't come back, which would have, had they been steel. The Sleavin's boat is only one of many examples. Many which don't come back, were designed by people who you would claim have more knowledge than I in structural principles.
None of mine have had any structural problems at sea. Few plastic boat designers cant make that claim. When the "Incidents' You claim never happen, actually do happen, the evidence often sinks without a trace. So who's structural knowledge stands the true test?
Results speak louder than critics, and have far more credibility!
The suggestion that boats which have gone decades, and the many extreme torture tests mine have endured, without structural problems, and still be structurally "wrong", is incredibly dense!
Duuuuhhhh!!!
The suggestion that boats which have cruised so many miles, without any stability problems of any kind, may be unstable, is also incredibly dense!
Duuuuhhhh!!!

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-03-2014 at 07:11 PM.
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  #4225  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

.


The stability curve on the origamiboats site ( 175 degrees AVS)are as accurate and valid as any ,anyone else could ever come up with.

Thanks for the inside info, Brent. So, any buyers out there looking at this boat need to know that all the equipment listed is damaged and was gotten for free. Therefore, apparently the value of the boat is FAR less than the asking price. It actually might be a great deal for a cruiser who wants to bump into things. $3K-4K for a boat? Not bad.[/QUOTE]
Steve, Winston and Don all got their asking price for their brentboats, which sold quickly, far more quickly than plastic boats do these days.

Only a guy like Smack would expect to find all" NEW" gear on a "used" boat!
Duuuuhhh!!!!!!
As soon as a boat leaves the dock, all it is gear is "Used."
When you work on a project , it is best to use only the sharpest tools, especially when it comes to decision making! Basing any of your decisions on advice from a tool as dull as a butter knife, would not be a good idea.

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-03-2014 at 07:16 PM.
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  #4226  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"The stability curve on the origamiboats site ( 175 degrees AVS)are as accurate and valid as any ,anyone else could ever come up with."

You say some really stupid things Brent. Do you really expect people to believe that? I can't figure out how you can believe it. Are you that ignorant? How many stability studies have you done? care to post some of them. I have been doing them for close to 40 years.

It's one thing to try to BS the gullible. But when the gullible includes you, the BS'er, things get really bizarre.
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Last edited by bobperry; 04-03-2014 at 07:20 PM.
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  #4227  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
After reading Mr Halcrow's account of his abandonment, it would appear that little of your speculation is accurate... The guy is from the freakin' Shetland Islands, I expect he's sailed in a bit of weather before:

11 March 2014 : Elsi Arrub

Interestingly, not the first time he's had to abandon this boat:

Sail-World.com : 'Second time lucky' hopes for solo circumnavigating sailor



Good article !
Would she have survived that long adrift had she been anything but steel? Probably not!
Could they have got her aboard a freighter ,without destroying her, had she been anything but steel? Probably not! Would she have been salvageable, had she been anything but steel? Not likely!
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  #4228  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yeah but, that boat appears to be a very nicely designed boat. I wouldn't go lumping all steel boats in together any more than I'd lump all grp boats in together. That is just silly.

That's a great looking steel double ender. It's no BS boat.
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  #4229  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by CatMan22 View Post
OK, enough is enough. I have read every freaking post on this thread since inception and have laughed at the banter and groaned at the sometime childish slander of other members, but "scrap piles" really. This thread started out about pros and cons of steel boats and now has turned into the maritime version of American Pickers. I mean I have read about park benches, recycled cabinets, steel and wood scrounged from construction sites and now scrap piles, give me a break. Do the world a favor, go off on an extended cruise with no wifi or means to communicate and give verbal dissertations to the locals on how they too can circumnavigate if they just visit the local refuse center and stock pile another mans unwanted items. But short of that, leave the I can build a boat out of your unwanted crap off this thread, because personally if i wanted to sail a garbage scow I'd just put pontoons on a dumpster and call a circus company and ask them for their trashed out tents and make sails out of them.
In terms of function, a Balmar alternator costing hundreds of dollars, on a diesel, has absolutely no advantage over an autowreckers alternator of the same output. Spending hundreds of dollars on gear which you can get the equivalent for next to nothing, is a total suckers game. This is what keeps them on the treadmill, working, instead of free to do whatever they want, any time they please.
The difference is the cruisers I met, who worked their entire lives to get where I was in my early 20s. Do I wish I had spent my life working, to be "stylish" and slavishly following the priorities dictated to me by the ship swindlers? Not a chance!
I'll continue sailing, while the gullible go to work to pay for your expensive bad advice.
Great sailing lately. Been a much warmer and dryer winter here than normal, Burned barely a cup of diesel in many days sailing. Rare on the BC coast .
I entertain myself in the mornings, by listening to the traffic report on how those who follow your advice are spending their time. Then I cut a fart in their honour, and go back to sleep for another hour!
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  #4230  
Old 04-03-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
this thread does bring out the absolutes.
one thing i will say for anti-establishment, stinkfoot, broke-as-a-joke, more-time-than-money sailors is that they don't go crying to mom and dad and threaten to leave when someone disagrees with them, then announce they are leaving, then announce that they have left.... and then keep posting.

They just keep posting.
You mean like Smack?
I hear ya!
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