Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 432 - SailNet Community
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post #4311 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Shank - do you remember Fatima and the Quivering Thigh ? Another R. Crumb creation. That's the boat Brent should crew on.
Bob I know you have no interest in designing in steel but you showed a heavy displacement full keeler of your design. Interested in your considered opinion about
At what size does steel start to come into its own and doesn't pay unacceptable performance price?
What general hull shapes would work? Slack bilged? Full keel? Low aspect fin?
What constraints does a by nature does a heavy boat place on the designer?
I very much respect your opinion. Therefore would respect your opinion of which of your peers design well in steel? I've thought Tanton, A. Pape and c. Witzholtz understood this material and drew some timeless designs.
I think Witholtz ,Tanton and Pape understood the material ,and had some hands on experience working with it. They would be a better source of info than someone who has no understanding of the material. I was hoping Tanton would participate more in this discussion. I guess the adolescent jeering scared him away. Dont blame him!
In smaller boats, the owners pack rat tendencies have a much bigger effect on total weight than hull material.
People with my 26 footer are happy with her performance .
Deeper deadrise lets you lower the floor in a small boat, lowering the freeboard, and thus lowering the centre of gravity. A Laurent Giles designed Vertue would possibly work well in steel ,given its displacement. A single chine version wouldn't differ much from the original shape.
One main drawback of a full keel in steel is the part of the keel under the engine is inaccessible for maintenance, and to far aft to take the weight of its being used as tankage. Its also much more difficult and time consuming to build the keel on. A low aspect fin keel with separate skeg ( used as an engine cooler) is easier to build and maintain, and thus more practical, altho most of my clients are going for twin keels these days( sure glad I did)

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-07-2014 at 05:20 PM.
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post #4312 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Rhys:
I remember the bizarro universe but I thought it was a Seinfeld episode.

I like to argue with Brent and I think he likes to argue with me. It's fun entertainment for me. I think he is a total hack of a yacht designer and a jerk. He does not qualify as a yacht designer by my standards. He thinks I'm a jerk and I may well be. But I'm a good yacht designer who also happens to be a jerk. I'm comfortable with imperfection.

I can post example after example of great boats I have designed and wonderful examples of my design craft. Brent just has angry words.

I did this CT54 ketch when I was 27 years old. They built 100 of them.
Did you design the CT41?

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post #4313 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
He's simply a garden variety fanatic.

The OED (THE arbiter of the English language ) defines it thusly;

Fanatic: A person filled with excessive and often misguided enthusiasm for something.
Lets see. People doing it the "Normal " way, spend decades trying to get off the treadmill, and free to cruise, spending tens of thousands to get there, something I have accomplished in my early 20's , on very little money.
And you say I'm the one who's "misguided?"
While other liveaboards are constantly complaining about dampness, and mold, I have eliminated all such problems decades ago, and my clients keep saying their brentboat is the most comfortable home they have ever had , in winter , in BC, and you say I am the one who is "Misguided?"
Sure glad the number of "misguided" is still small. It would be crowded out here, otherwise.

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post #4314 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I believe the question was addressed to me Brent. Reading comprehenion problems again?
Or just that never ending quest for attention?

I think there are lots of nice steel designs around done by skilled designers with a good eye for lines. I would look at the entire body of a designer's work, not just his steel designs. Look for a designer who draws good boats that have handsome lines and a good performance track record. They are all just boats. I like Pape's work. Of course Whitholtz is an old favorite of mine (sat next to him at dinner one night), Yves -Marie is an old chum and I always admire his work. He knows what makes a boat go and he is a very good sailor. I don't believe he has ever built a steel boat though. But that doesn't bother me.
I was never a Colvin fan but I enjoyed looking ast his design work. It just didn't suit my taste. Find a designer with an overall good track record over a wide range of boats.

I think I'd draw the line around 35' for steel. You can always do a heavy boat that is shorter LOA but as some point the weight of the material is totally driving the design. I prefert to keep my D/L's under 300 when I can. If we are talking about boats with upper D/L's, above 260, I'd probably favor moderate deadrise and a low aspect ratio fin keel. My concern would be sufficient displ in the boat vs material weight so that I could get a good B/D and good stability.

I'll bet there are a lot of great German and Dutch designs available in steel.
I'd avoid the stock plan hacks who can't produce any examples of their design work.
Of the guys you mention I think Whitholtz would be my favorite. He never drew an ugly boat.

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post #4315 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

No Brent. Even a cursory search of the internet would tell you that I did not design the CT41.

Ct 65, 56, 54 and 48 are mine.

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Last edited by bobperry; 04-07-2014 at 05:51 PM.
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post #4316 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
As I contemplate this thread, I have to wonder whether the original poster, a member named, CaptainQuiet, and whose member description is "quiet is as quiet does" ever got his steel boat, or for that matter, ever got his answer. CaptainQuiet posted his original query roughly 2 1/2 years ago and last posted on SailNet something like 14 months ago.

Jus say'n........




Lovely picture of a lovely boat.
The original question was about pros and cons of steel sailboats. I believe that anyone asking about steel sailboats is interested in a long distance fulltime cruiser, not an around the buoys, oversized day sailor like Frankie.
What Bob has consistently offered is a Lincoln Continental or Mazaratti for use as an off road 4X4 vehicle, kinda like offering a Tour de France bike for use as a mountain bike. It reminds me when I was young and naïve, building my first offshore boat, while reflecting the priorities Bob and other armchair experts spout here.
When I talked about racing boat priorities to a tug boat skipper building next to me, he kept saying " You will be like a "greyhound in the jungle!"
2 years in the South Pacific taught me well, that he was right, and that the Kiwi racing skipper I was getting my info from was full of crap, when it comes to cruising boat priorities.
No Bob, a Lincoln Continental does not make a good off road vehicle!
However, you would have to get off the beaten path or to realize that.

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post #4317 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by shank32095 View Post
Brent, I believe you have finally given a new meaning to the word insane. I am going to call it " inswain ". Inswainity results from having to reread your reposts that any sane individual would never had posted in the first place. Please go back to passing gas and listening to traffic reports on the radio.
A guy who semi retires in his mid 20's to cruise the South Pacific in his own yacht , spends his life cruising, when he could be working and solving the world people shortage, paying a mortgage, groveling to and kissing a boss's ass daily, spending hours daily in a smoggy traffic line up, a guy who wakes up daily in beautiful anchorages, instead of in a smog bank , a guy who eats real food, instead of intrafacial chemotherapy , food like substances from the corporate mass poisoning industry, a guy who spent most of his life without being henpecked daily/?
Man how "insane" can a guy get!

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post #4318 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I like the world of design I live in Brent. I don't want yours. It does not appeal to me. I do not want to be known as the designer of ugly boats. My boats are designed for a different life style than yours. There are other life styles you know. I like beautiful, fast boats.
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post #4319 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent:
You seem to work very hard at explaining how perfect your life is. I find that a bit like you are trying hard to convince yourself. You probably have little choice. We have heard how perfect everything thing is for you ad nauseum.

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post #4320 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
CPP and OAS contributions go to Duffy and Ford?

Interesting.

How does that work exactly? How do they get their hands on CPP contributions? (that I have actually made all my adult life, so yes, I certainly won't turn it down)
They are paid out of the government cookie jar. The more money I take out of it, the less left for starving guys like them! I think I can find hungrier people to give it to.

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