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  #4321  
Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Okay - I'm sorry - that's funny...well, only if you're not a member of the Church of Swaintology.

This is the kind of guy young urban women swoon over. If that is what they admire, I am complimented by their lack of interest in me. That would truly be an insult!

I hear he has a bad case of that common form of insanity called "Religion."
  #4322  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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I don't think I'm as impressed as you Smack - I see at LEAST a 3' line coming off the stern.
Not much wake, if you go slow enough!
  #4323  
Old 04-07-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Working on interior finish details for Frankie and having fun at it.
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  #4324  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
Owner motored Frankie over to the marina this morning in 15 to 20 and a Puget Sound chop. I asked him if it pounded or slammed and he said no. He thought it was "rock steady". That surprised me a bit. I anticipated some slamming with that ultra flat rocker. Maybe it's a low frontal area thang. What do you think? He hit one big tug wake and one freighter wake and nothing. He is very happy. Our typical on the nose, "square" chop can be brutal on some boats. It can stop you dead. The old Valiant 40 with all that flair wasn't too happy in that chop and Frankie is about as opposite a shape to the V-40 as I can think of.
My first boat, a Pipe Dream, had deep V'd bows. On a windward bash from Vanuatu to Fiji, into a 25 knot squally trade winds ,she pounded like hell, when the flat side of that V shaped bow slammed down on a wave. My second boat, with similar bows, slammed only slightly less. My current boat, with well rounded sections forward, does no such slamming, but glides smoothly thru head seas. Deep V bows drop quickly, almost up to deck level, before a wave encounters any serious buoyancy. Then buoyancy builds up suddenly, and the boat stops .Rounded sections avoid this sudden buildup of buoyancy . Herreschoff writes that this is the reason clipper bows are impractical on boats under 45 feet.
  #4325  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Now for just the hellishness of it.......Could a good skilled welder or equal build frankie to look as close as one can, in steel? I'm betting a GOOD welder probably could.......no BS talking here folks. Aluminum would probably be easier I would think....... Then again, I have never worked with these materials. SHould ask Ying and Yang......twin sons with welding degree's I suppose........


Just to get us back on track.....

did Bob ever get that aruminum beach boat built he designed for himself?

marty
One could ,but why would he bother. Going to all that extra trouble would have minimal if any returns, or justification.
  #4326  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
My first boat a Pipe Dream had deep V'd bows. On a windward bash from Vanuatu to Fiji into a 25 knot squally trade wind ,she pounded like hell when the flat side of that V shaped bow slammed down on a wave. My second boat with similar bows slammed only slightly less. My current boat, with well rounded sections forward, does no such slamming, but glides smoothly thru head seas. Deep V bows drop quickly almost up to deck level, before a wave encounters any serious buoyancy. Then buoyancy builds up suddenly, and the boat stops .Rounded sections avoid this sudden buildup of buoyancy . Herreschoff writes that this is the reason clipper bows are impractical on boats under 45 feet.
I am sure you have said before, but what was your first boat Brent??
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  #4327  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by paulk View Post
I seem to remember Yves Tanton stating something like you need to have about 60' to make steel work for the weight/performance ratio. With all the ice melting and the coral dying, plus being able to tell exactly where you are all the time so as to avoid rocks, does steel simply become a relatively inexpensive raw material with high maintenance costs? Starts to sound a bit like wood.
I met an old Kiwi in Nelson New Zealand who had owned wooden boats all his life. He had built himself a 36 ft Matangi motor sailer. He was amazed at how little maintenance his steel boat required , compared to his wooden boats.
14 to 15 days from BC to Hawaii in my 36 footers is not slow. If you ask offshore cruisers in steel boats around that size, you will find that their passage times are about the same as that of any other cruisers. Some under 30 feet also have reasonable passage times. You would be better off to ask them about their experience with reality, rather than go on armchair theory.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

[QUOTE=bobperry;1707818]Brent: You appear to have a reading comprehension problem. You asked me how Frankie was built ( it's been documented here several times) and I explained quickly the method. That's all. I did not make any claims. I don't have to. The boat speaks volumes for itself. It has nothing to do with whether steel is a good or bad building material. We never considered steel.

I am certainly not threatening you Brent. I can't find any threats. I'm just saying that I can't imagine you would want a face to face meeting with me. Maybe you can. I do not do "demolition derbies" in my boats. My boats are far too beautiful and their owners far too intelligent for that level of stupidity. You say the most ridiculous things sometimes Brent. I'm not sure I have ever seen someone celebrate his own ignorance to the level you do., You parade it. You live in a world where you are constantly on the defense. But that makes sense given your output. You have no offence.

Bob, what I am suggesting is your theory about my steel boats not being strong enough, is not one you have much confidence in.
What holds strip planked boats together? Fastenings in red cedar! What holds fastenings in red cedar? Friction between the red cedar and the fastenings.. Thus strip planked wooden boats are held together by friction.
You imply that using a material which has a tensile strength of 60,000 PSI may not be strong enough if you don't use the best engineering, yet you advocate one of yours ,held together by friction, as a better choice.
Instead of one which is 3/16 th plate,11,500 per linear inch tensile strength in all directions, you advocate one held together by 16 gauge fastenings every 6 inches.
I have posted to death all the structural engineering principles in my boats. The fact that too many have not been able to grasp the simple principles involved, is not my problem. Intelligent people get it, and it is only them I have any interest in dealing with.
  #4329  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
My first boat, a Pipe Dream, had deep V'd bows. On a windward bash from Vanuatu to Fiji, into a 25 knot squally trade winds ,she pounded like hell, when the flat side of that V shaped bow slammed down on a wave. My second boat, with similar bows, slammed only slightly less. My current boat, with well rounded sections forward, does no such slamming, but glides smoothly thru head seas.
The story goes that Peterson came up with the U-bow he introduced on Ganbare due to that exact experience on a Tahiti race - on Improbable IIRC.
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  #4330  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
I am sure you have said before, but what was your first boat Brent??
It was a "Pipe Dream" designed by Francis S Kinney and featured in his book "Skene's Elements of Yacht Design"
Great to windward , uncontrollable downwind. In NZ I took the rudder off the keel and gave her a spade rudder 6 ft further aft ,a huge improvement.
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