Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 433 - SailNet Community
 1723Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #4321 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Okay - I'm sorry - that's funny...well, only if you're not a member of the Church of Swaintology.

This is the kind of guy young urban women swoon over. If that is what they admire, I am complimented by their lack of interest in me. That would truly be an insult!

I hear he has a bad case of that common form of insanity called "Religion."

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4322 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I don't think I'm as impressed as you Smack - I see at LEAST a 3' line coming off the stern.
Not much wake, if you go slow enough!

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4323 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,227
Thanks: 1
Thanked 101 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Working on interior finish details for Frankie and having fun at it.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #4324 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
Owner motored Frankie over to the marina this morning in 15 to 20 and a Puget Sound chop. I asked him if it pounded or slammed and he said no. He thought it was "rock steady". That surprised me a bit. I anticipated some slamming with that ultra flat rocker. Maybe it's a low frontal area thang. What do you think? He hit one big tug wake and one freighter wake and nothing. He is very happy. Our typical on the nose, "square" chop can be brutal on some boats. It can stop you dead. The old Valiant 40 with all that flair wasn't too happy in that chop and Frankie is about as opposite a shape to the V-40 as I can think of.
My first boat, a Pipe Dream, had deep V'd bows. On a windward bash from Vanuatu to Fiji, into a 25 knot squally trade winds ,she pounded like hell, when the flat side of that V shaped bow slammed down on a wave. My second boat, with similar bows, slammed only slightly less. My current boat, with well rounded sections forward, does no such slamming, but glides smoothly thru head seas. Deep V bows drop quickly, almost up to deck level, before a wave encounters any serious buoyancy. Then buoyancy builds up suddenly, and the boat stops .Rounded sections avoid this sudden buildup of buoyancy . Herreschoff writes that this is the reason clipper bows are impractical on boats under 45 feet.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4325 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Now for just the hellishness of it.......Could a good skilled welder or equal build frankie to look as close as one can, in steel? I'm betting a GOOD welder probably could.......no BS talking here folks. Aluminum would probably be easier I would think....... Then again, I have never worked with these materials. SHould ask Ying and Yang......twin sons with welding degree's I suppose........


Just to get us back on track.....

did Bob ever get that aruminum beach boat built he designed for himself?

marty
One could ,but why would he bother. Going to all that extra trouble would have minimal if any returns, or justification.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4326 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Picnic Sailor
 
chall03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 23
Thanked 26 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
My first boat a Pipe Dream had deep V'd bows. On a windward bash from Vanuatu to Fiji into a 25 knot squally trade wind ,she pounded like hell when the flat side of that V shaped bow slammed down on a wave. My second boat with similar bows slammed only slightly less. My current boat, with well rounded sections forward, does no such slamming, but glides smoothly thru head seas. Deep V bows drop quickly almost up to deck level, before a wave encounters any serious buoyancy. Then buoyancy builds up suddenly, and the boat stops .Rounded sections avoid this sudden buildup of buoyancy . Herreschoff writes that this is the reason clipper bows are impractical on boats under 45 feet.
I am sure you have said before, but what was your first boat Brent??

'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing' - Helen Keller



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
chall03 is offline  
post #4327 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk View Post
I seem to remember Yves Tanton stating something like you need to have about 60' to make steel work for the weight/performance ratio. With all the ice melting and the coral dying, plus being able to tell exactly where you are all the time so as to avoid rocks, does steel simply become a relatively inexpensive raw material with high maintenance costs? Starts to sound a bit like wood.
I met an old Kiwi in Nelson New Zealand who had owned wooden boats all his life. He had built himself a 36 ft Matangi motor sailer. He was amazed at how little maintenance his steel boat required , compared to his wooden boats.
14 to 15 days from BC to Hawaii in my 36 footers is not slow. If you ask offshore cruisers in steel boats around that size, you will find that their passage times are about the same as that of any other cruisers. Some under 30 feet also have reasonable passage times. You would be better off to ask them about their experience with reality, rather than go on armchair theory.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4328 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

[QUOTE=bobperry;1707818]Brent: You appear to have a reading comprehension problem. You asked me how Frankie was built ( it's been documented here several times) and I explained quickly the method. That's all. I did not make any claims. I don't have to. The boat speaks volumes for itself. It has nothing to do with whether steel is a good or bad building material. We never considered steel.

I am certainly not threatening you Brent. I can't find any threats. I'm just saying that I can't imagine you would want a face to face meeting with me. Maybe you can. I do not do "demolition derbies" in my boats. My boats are far too beautiful and their owners far too intelligent for that level of stupidity. You say the most ridiculous things sometimes Brent. I'm not sure I have ever seen someone celebrate his own ignorance to the level you do., You parade it. You live in a world where you are constantly on the defense. But that makes sense given your output. You have no offence.

Bob, what I am suggesting is your theory about my steel boats not being strong enough, is not one you have much confidence in.
What holds strip planked boats together? Fastenings in red cedar! What holds fastenings in red cedar? Friction between the red cedar and the fastenings.. Thus strip planked wooden boats are held together by friction.
You imply that using a material which has a tensile strength of 60,000 PSI may not be strong enough if you don't use the best engineering, yet you advocate one of yours ,held together by friction, as a better choice.
Instead of one which is 3/16 th plate,11,500 per linear inch tensile strength in all directions, you advocate one held together by 16 gauge fastenings every 6 inches.
I have posted to death all the structural engineering principles in my boats. The fact that too many have not been able to grasp the simple principles involved, is not my problem. Intelligent people get it, and it is only them I have any interest in dealing with.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4329 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,437
Thanks: 59
Thanked 68 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
My first boat, a Pipe Dream, had deep V'd bows. On a windward bash from Vanuatu to Fiji, into a 25 knot squally trade winds ,she pounded like hell, when the flat side of that V shaped bow slammed down on a wave. My second boat, with similar bows, slammed only slightly less. My current boat, with well rounded sections forward, does no such slamming, but glides smoothly thru head seas.
The story goes that Peterson came up with the U-bow he introduced on Ganbare due to that exact experience on a Tahiti race - on Improbable IIRC.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
post #4330 of 5317 Old 04-07-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,579
Thanks: 20
Thanked 40 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
I am sure you have said before, but what was your first boat Brent??
It was a "Pipe Dream" designed by Francis S Kinney and featured in his book "Skene's Elements of Yacht Design"
Great to windward , uncontrollable downwind. In NZ I took the rudder off the keel and gave her a spade rudder 6 ft further aft ,a huge improvement.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 05-20-2015 12:05 AM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome