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  #431  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeff:
A client just gave me LEARNING TO CRUISE by N. A. Calahan. Published in 1945. I'll read the book and then I will send it to you. You will love it.

Let me know if you have it already.
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  #432  
Old 08-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob, can you help me out with that math problem a little, I have had a huge headache all day and I just cannot concentrate, hopefully it is not showing too much in my posts LOL.

The equation has to figure in the downward motion of the boat, with the gravity factored in, plus the Impulse of Force, which is getting my head to hurting more as I keep screwing it up, along with the application of time duration of the impact. I am sure you have the same formula in one of your books there, I just do not have enough information and I am having to guess on too much of it to get it right. My math background from college was physics, mostly particle physics, ( yes my parents were very disappointed for a while when I left school without getting my masters or doctoral degree, but school was just not working for me at the time), and applied physics and mechanical engineering are sometimes a struggle for me since I have had to learn it all on my own. I am having trouble getting my head around the way the impact calculation has to work with forward velocity and the downward velocity as well as the weight of the water moving with the boat increasing its momentum, as well as the way the deceleration should be calculated.

I am also using a formula appropriate to striking a fixed object which will not work right, because I would have to use the formula on the floating Fukushima debris or submerged container as well, calculating the upward force, the speed, the mass and the force of the water giving that piece momentum as well. I only have a small dry erase board to work with and it is not large enough to do it all without erasing.... erase the board and I am erasing my brain right now

Do you have some little program or calculator that you can use to do it if we get the estimated weights and so forth close enough to work?

Thanks
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Mark:
No.
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  #434  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Impact Resistance of Sailboat Hull Materials

An interesting article I found yesterday on the impact resistance of different boat building materials.

Marty
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
A client just gave me LEARNING TO CRUISE by N. A. Calahan. Published in 1945. I'll read the book and then I will send it to you. You will love it.

Let me know if you have it already.
Bob,

Thank you for the generous offer. H.A. is always a great read. I do have a copy of 'Learning to Cruise', which is also included in "A Yachtsman's Omnibus" that I also have in my collection.

You have to love that picture of Calahan in his 'foul weather gear' with the scubbing pads tied on with twine, and his 'body and soul' strings. The other picture that I have always got a kick out of is the picture of H.A.'s outboard carrying rack hung on his spare tire. Great stuff!

I actually briefly met Calahan as a kid. He was a chemist, who developed a range marine products included "chiltered" (chilled and filtered) varnish. His business was on the Post Road in Manaroneck, N.Y., which was just down the road from the first yard where my family kept our first boat the first winter. Dad and I went in there to buy supplies and there he was. I felt like I had just met a movie star.

My favorite story of Calahan's(which I think is in that book) was when he bought his NY30 (or was it a NY40), and climbed up on deck for the first time while she was still sitting in a shed. I have always sympathized with his description of looking down the length of the deck, which seemed to stretch to the horizon, and humbly asking himself, 'How is possible that I will be able to handle a boat this big?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
I'm just jealous that you got to hang with those old guys. It must have been amazing. How old are you? 244? You don't look a day over 67.
That's funny....I'm only 63. I must admit that from the time I was a young kid, I have always been a yacht designer groupie. As a kid I was like the young fans who would stand for hours at the stadium door hoping to get a famous player to autograph his ball card. Instead of ball cards I collected old sailing magazines and went anywhere that I thought I might meet a yacht designer.

For example, I would work for free at the New York Boat show just to be there and get to meet designers. That was where I met Jack Holt, Ian Proctor, Hinterhoeler, both of the C's in C&C, and Carl Alberg (who was not at all talkative).

My pilgramadges to meet designers did not always go all that well. When I was 12-13 or so, I rode my bike over to meet Bill Tripp. I waltzed into his office back to his drafting table and introduced myself saying, "I am a big fan of your work and I want to be a yacht designer when I grow up." He glanced up from his drafting table and sized me up me for a second and said words to the effect of, "I am grown up, and I am a yacht designer, and I have work to do." and then motioned towards the door I came in through.

My time with Charlie Wittholz gave me a first hand glimpse into the various personalities in Rhodes and Alden offices of the late 1930's through the early 1950's. Charlie told his own stories about making pilgramages to meet designers including one of taking a train, and then walking miles to meet L. Francis Herreshoff, only to be sent packing in much the same way as Bill Tripp sent me on my way. Charlie also had great stories about guys like William Albert Robinson and the Colman's who built the Rhodes Bounty's.

I made a pilgramage to meet Gilmer and had a nice afternoon chat in which we agreed on almost nothing. I have met most of the Annapolis based designers.

I met a lot of designers in odd ways. I worked on "Improbable" at Direcktors Florida yard getting her ready for the Admiral's Cup. A very young Ron Holland was Gary Mull's on site representative. (I've told him this story a few years back.) The yard workers saw him as a pain in the butt. This was the first time that the yard has sprayed Awlgrip and something had gone badly wrong. We had spent a hectic week and a half cleaning up the mess and it was decided that we would spray the final coat on a Saturday when the yard was closed. To keep the dust down, all the shed doors were kept close. This was Florida in July. It was miserably hot.

We had gotten everything set up and ready to go, when Ron Holland walked into the shed. It was just me, the paint foreman and Ron, and I could tell the paint foreman was not happy to see Ron. The paint foreman told Ron that we would be another hour setting up and sent him to buy beer, giving him a **** and bull story about beer stores being closed on Saturday in that town and giving him bad directions to a place to buy beer in the next town. Ron went off in search of beer and by the time he got back we had finished most of the paint job.

I doubt you would recall this since I was but one of the large crowd who you would have met aboard that Valiant 42, but you and I met at an Annapolis Boat Show. I had asked Bernie Jakits if he knew when you would be at the show and made a point of being there at that time.

But of all the designers of all time, growing up Starling Burgess stood out as a bigger than life hero. The sheer inventiveness and multidiscipline nature of Burgess's creativity was inspriational to me. To me he was Leonardo Da Vinci who had died only 3 years before I was born. To me, Burgess was a giant with one foot standing on science and the other in art. I once bought a book on Glenn Curtiss only because it talked about Burgess.

I also was a huge fan of Nat Herreshoff for similar reasons.

I was a huge fan of Marchaj, for his ability to explain the science in a way that even I could understand, and Chappelle, for pioneering the preservation of sailing history. As an adult, I talked to him a few weeks before he died, and to George Stadel on that same landmark day.

As I type this, I have a renewed sympathy for my parents. I was a pretty strange kid. I guess I still am at 63.....

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 08-07-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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  #436  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeff:
Funny Tripp story.
When I went to work at Carter's I called K. Aage Nielsen. I loved his work and I wanted to meet him. I asked him if I could come to the office. He said something like "only if you plan on spending money". I never called him back. Bill Garden was very generous with his time when I was a kid. He could have blown me off but he was patient with me. Whenever a kid calls me and wants to visit I remember the way Bill treated me and I respond the best I can the same way.

My friend Nathan, started Valiant, made an appointment to meet L. Francis. He arrived at the Castle one snowy night, having driven from New York, and knocked on the door. The famous "housekeeper" opened the door, looked at Nathan, made some comment about his long hair and sent him packing.
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  #437  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

L. Francis's 'housekeeper' was notorious. Maybe that was part of the job as 'housekeeper'. When I called Howard Chappelle a woman, who I've always assumed was a housekeeper answered the phone. I asked to speak to Mr. Chappelle and explained why I was calling. She tried to shoe me off and said very gravely, "Mr. Chappelle is very sick and is not expected to live." (or words to that affect.)

There was a moment of silence as I let the words sink in and then I heard what sounded like a weak voice from another room saying, "Who is that?". The woman said,"Its a young man who wants to talk about boats." Chappelle replied sharply, "Bring me that phone." Howard Chappelle and I talked for quite a while and eventually he begged off as his energy was fading. He had suggested that I call George Stadel to get my question answered, and when I talked to Stadel to please send Howard's regards.

I called George Stadel that very day and at the end of the call I said, "I was talking to Howard Chappelle earlier today, and Howard sends his regards." I felt terrible, like some kind of insenitive name dropper and quickly explained about Howard's health and the call. Howard Chappelle died a few weeks later.

As a kid I was totally crestfallen by Bill Tripp's reaction. But in hindsight, as an adult, I have long since rationalized it as a busy man perhaps on a deadline.

I guess that designer's personalities vary widely. Charlie told me that Alden was like a Father and like a child to all he met. My Dad spoke with Phil Rhodes who was totally gracious and humble. Olin Stephens seemed to be the same way. Bruce Farr has always kindly answered my questions with great poise and kindness. Jack Holt was a real trip but also very kind with his time. (The second year that I worked at the NY Boat show Jack said, "Aren't you the same kid who polished the bronze here last year? How the hell have you been?" I answered that was me and I wanted to ask him about something he had said the year before... But before I could ask my question, he good naturedly said," I sure hope that you have not been thinking about anything that I might have said for a whole year." )

In my own life, I always try to be accessible to young folks who are considering my profession or learning about boats for that matter. I feel like I am returning the gifts that life have given me. Besides I enjoy it. I once tutored a young man who wanted to be a yacht designer when he was in Jr. High. Over the course of the school year he designed, with me riding shotgun a MORC boat. He ended up studying naval architecture at Kings Point and after a stint in the merchant marine is a naval architect with a company that designs ships.

Oh well, Back to work,
Jeff
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Just want to thank Jeff for sharing his time on this forum. Sailed over to the Bristol Museum a couple of weeks ago. Even the admiral left in awe. Amazing story how their catamaran won all her races and resulted in cats being banned from racing. Their sail to NY is a good tale as well. Amazing what a blind man and a kid with brains and spirit could end up doing given the age in which they lived. ? Any stories about Schumacher or Frers or gentleman Jim. Could read your posts all day.
Bit- It was a good read and makes me happier about my choice of boat regardless of the BS from BS. Thanks.
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  #439  
Old 08-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
A client just gave me LEARNING TO CRUISE by N. A. Calahan. Published in 1945. I'll read the book and then I will send it to you. You will love it.

Let me know if you have it already.
It surprised me that none of Calahan's books have been "Gutenberged". Well out of copyright and no longer in print they certainly qualify. I know I know I know ... turning pages is it own reward but its a damn sight easier to read a back lit tablet when snugged up in the cockpit at 0200 than a book.

Anyone interested should search Abe or Alibris. I ordered a copy yesterday for a couple of bucks. Postage to Oz was twice the cost of the book. Grrrr.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Impact Resistance of Sailboat Hull Materials

An interesting article I found yesterday on the impact resistance of different boat building materials.

Marty
Excellent! Great article. Thanks. It reaffirms my comments about transverse frames making it much easier to punch a hole in a boat. When a BC ferry ran aground in Gunboat Pass, a client dove on her. He said it was creased between the frames, and only holed at each frame. Had the longitudinals been set away from the frames, with no contact between frames and hull plate , he said she would have been creased full length, with no holes in her.
I have read that river boat racers have steel bottoms and aluminium topsides, because steel is far more resistant to holing.
With origami boats you can whack her with a sledge hammer, as hard as you want, away from chines, without denting or damaging her in any way. The plate simply springs back with nothing hard to bend the plate against. It only dents if your whack her near a hard point, such as a chine . That is why my 36 footers have survived pounding on lee shores and coral, in big surf, with no hull dents. Had they been framed, they would have been severely dented between the frames.
A friend, building a fibreglass Endurance 35, wanted to change the interior, eliminating some plywood bulkheads. He asked the hull builders, Dekleer brothers, if they were structurally needed. The long time professional builders said " The most likely place to find cracked fibreglass is at the bulkheads. Eliminating bulkheads reduces the chances of the hull cracking." He later did a Pacific circumnavigation and a world circumnavigation, with no problems . The boat is anchored in Nanaimo BC, off Protection Island.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 08-07-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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