Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 449 - SailNet Community
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post #4481 of 5317 Old 04-15-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Yep, you could say that.

Here's proof that steel hulls do not have to be ugly. This is a MacClear and Harris design.

Looks like the Angatyre design here in Comox. She has a very high gloss finish on her; which you can see your face in from a long ways off. She has a very expensive rig.( Contrary to disinformation posted here) and new Furlex furlers on main , genny and staysail. She has a well built hydraulic anchor winch ( Chuck ,the builder, did hydraulics for logging companies for decades)
She has minimal interior and no spray foam ,just a rough anti condensation coating. This lets you see the condition of the steel inside, anywhere.
Tony Lyons could put a beautiful interior in easily and quickly. I don't see the for sale sign on her any more. ( nor on Silas Crosby,which I am told, sold months ago)
I saw her listed in Will's Marine brokers at $175,000 CDN yesterday. A call to Ocean Pacific's yard in Campbell River, where she spent months, will probably confirm that they spent almost that much on her recently, and possibly more. They may have spent that much on the paint job alone.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-16-2014 at 07:43 PM.
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post #4482 of 5317 Old 04-15-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent, Enough already, why can you not just lighten up. I live in Bahia Brazil and see my fair share of dumpster diving on a daily basis. People don't do this because they want to, they do it to survive. They don't do it so they can brag about how they have a bunch of time to hang on the beach while all the successful people are at work earning an income that will allow them to live their individual perception of a good life. So be it that there are folks out there with limited funds who would like to sail but can only afford one of your boats built of refuse. You have grasp a very, very small portion of the market that don't care if their boats look like crap and have much more time than money/job so as to spend attempting to finish a boat you tack together in a weekend. Your clients are a really small percentage of sailors yet you continually rant that anyone that wishes to purchase an expensive beautiful vessel is ignorant and should adhere to the gospel of BS. Just barely below the surface of your rants there lies a thick layer of obvious envy towards those more accomplished than you and those with more resources. Fact is there are many people like myself that have worked hard and smart and we think nothing of throwing down a half million for a vessel that makes us happy. Personally I would not take one of your BS boats if you gave it to me but then again I am amazed how much money someone else might pay for such a boat, it amounts to infinitely too much ! Different strokes for different folks. I appears to me that everyone on this blog, especially you, would be served well by just sharing information and not condemnation.
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post #4483 of 5317 Old 04-15-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Life is thread drift Brent. Get used to it. Besides being "off the road" capable has zero to do with looking crude. Crude is crude on and off the road. There are lots of great looking steel boats. I'd like to see more of them here.

The Mercedes answer to the Land Rover is a beautiful car.

My blog is going wild today, over 110 hits. I made the signature thang bigger and I posted the address on Facebook.
Bob. Check the origamiboats site. You will seesome extremely beautiful Brentboats there.

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post #4484 of 5317 Old 04-15-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent I have checked your origami site and I have not seen a single boat I would call beautiful. I see some I would call "almost ok" but most are cobbled together amateur efforts that do not qualify as "yachts" in my book. For the most part they are very crude boats. OK, I admit that I have seen a couple that looked pretty good. I think your 34' model. I could be mistaken. But I credit that entirely to the builder. I have never seen anything from you that would indicate you had a hand in their aesthetics.

I know there is a market for them. I admire the fact that they work for some people. You have your market and I have mine. That's fine. I will never go after your clients on a personal level as you have mine on countless occasions. But you do not produce design work and that shows in the boats. It's all left in the hands of the builder. If in fact you do produce design work for them show us, a lines plan, deck lines, finished joinery layout. All designers do it.

I believe I will go run the vacuum. I like a spotless house.

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post #4485 of 5317 Old 04-15-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Brent, Enough already, why can you not just lighten up. I live in Bahia Brazil and see my fair share of dumpster diving on a daily basis. People don't do this because they want to, they do it to survive. They don't do it so they can brag about how they have a bunch of time to hang on the beach while all the successful people are at work earning an income that will allow them to live their individual perception of a good life. So be it that there are folks out there with limited funds who would like to sail but can only afford one of your boats built of refuse. You have grasp a very, very small portion of the market that don't care if their boats look like crap and have much more time than money/job so as to spend attempting to finish a boat you tack together in a weekend. Your clients are a really small percentage of sailors yet you continually rant that anyone that wishes to purchase an expensive beautiful vessel is ignorant and should adhere to the gospel of BS. Just barely below the surface of your rants there lies a thick layer of obvious envy towards those more accomplished than you and those with more resources. Fact is there are many people like myself that have worked hard and smart and we think nothing of throwing down a half million for a vessel that makes us happy. Personally I would not take one of your BS boats if you gave it to me but then again I am amazed how much money someone else might pay for such a boat, it amounts to infinitely too much ! Different strokes for different folks. I appears to me that everyone on this blog, especially you, would be served well by just sharing information and not condemnation.
Man what a crock! There is not a person on the planet I would change places with! My clients are those who use their boats for cruising full time, a way of life, not as status symbols and marina queens.Sure, I had some high paying jobs, which I could have spent a lifetime doing, making lots of money and gathering consumer baggage ( wrecking the environment and the future of Bobs kids, and grandkids, etc.). I quit as soon as I had enough for a year cruising .Took under a month. Do I wish I had continued working ? Not a chance!
I have turned down every offer of work I have been offered lately.
No one ever laid on their death bed saying "I wish I had worked more!"
I share information every time it is asked for ( far more relevant to the original question here, to which Bob and Smack have contributed little or nothing in the way of steel boat knowledge ). I don't let disinformation, which can screw people who don't have a lot of money, out of their cruising dreams, go unchallenged. I don't let elitists discourage low income people, who CAN go cruising, and enjoy the cruising life as much as any millionaire.
The resulting contempt of such territorial, rich elitists, is a sincere form of flattery, in my opinion.

I have never had a bank loan, and never paid a penny in direct bank interest. I have very rarely, since my mid 20s, had to wake up to an alarm clock, get up and go to work when I didn't feel like it. I have not had to grovel to anyone .What is being suggested here is that I am "envious" of those who spend their lives doing so, often working at jobs they hate, sucking up to bosses they hate.
I set sail, single handed in my first boat, on my first Pacific crossing, at the ripe old age of 23.
What is being suggested is that I am "envious" of those who took took much later in life to get there, and had to put up with decades of crap to get there.
When I see a morbidly obese, bossy woman, I think "If that is not one of the cuties who turned me down decades ago , most of them probably look and act like her." What is being suggested here is that I am "Envious" of the "Lucky " guys who married them.
When I wake up in some beautiful anchorage, when I please, and spend my entire day as I please, doing exactly what I feel like doing, it is being suggested that I am "envious" of those who spend most of their lives being told what to do.
Many people buy the disinformation that ones happiness is directly porportionate to the amount of junk one possesses, failing to grasp the idea that there is a limit on how much one can own before it begins to own you. When it doesn't make them any happier, they simply drown themselves in more junk. It is being suggested that I am 'Envious " of people with this form of mental illness.
Can't think of what I would buy if I won the lottery I have everythign I want already.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-17-2014 at 09:18 PM.
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post #4486 of 5317 Old 04-15-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Stand back everyone, I think we may have a personal problem here.

Brent calm down. Take a deep breath. Maybe you should consider a drink. Something.

But for you and only you I present the crock of the evening award. More and more personal attacks. Words are all you have and you don't have many. So take this here award and go home proud. You must have quite a collection of these by now.


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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent, Who ask you to be someone else? Just try to open your brain to the fact that the majority of people don't buy into your rap.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Stand back everyone, I think we may have a personal problem here.

Brent calm down. Take a deep breath. Maybe you should consider a drink. Something.

But for you and only you I present the crock of the evening award. More and more personal attacks. Words are all you have and you don't have many. So take this here award and go home proud. You must have quite a collection of these by now.


Life is thread drift.
Bob, in my 15+ years of hanging out on various sailing forums, I do believe dt/tillerman/Doctor Electron was the only other individual who came remotely close to BS in his desperation to convince the audience how absolutely wonderful his own life was... :-)
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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When some don't understand the subject, they try to change the subject.
That is an admission that they don't understand the subject.
Like you and math....and design....and truth...


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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent
Some of us like work. We help others and get satisfaction from using our skills and the blessings god gave us.
Some of us live very differently in different phases phases of our lives. We pack different lives and different personas into our time on earth.
Some us enjoy modern comforts as we live on our boats. Hydraulic heat with multiple zones,AC,unlimited fresh water,tv,internet connectivity, great sound system, freezer and frig with wind and solar so little need to liberate hydrocarbons.
Some of us like to travel in a boat that performs,is safe in weather and is beautiful inside and out.
Some of us like to haul when convenient not worrying delayed maintenance will imperil the structural integrity of our homes. Sure like you we need to keep our bottoms clean and zincs fresh but modern materials and diving makes for acceptable intervals.
I like metal boats. I nearly built one and for my " last " boat the decision was between a Boreal or a Outbound. I think for the home builder wanting steel both on a performance,financial ( resale), aesethic, maintenance and quality of life basis the prospective sailor would be well served to look at designs other than yours given your thinking and attitude are clearly frozen in one time,one space and an inflexible view of the world.Please stop degrading yourself by trying to degrade others.
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