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  #4511  
Old 04-16-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Dad did logistics planning in WW2. Would not talk about it much. Best I could gather got dropped off on S. Pacific island with another grunt ( he was master sarg. at the time). Scouted, radioed and then got picked up when Allied forces liberated the island. Said he saw the Japanese do horrific things to the native islanders. Ended up hating them more then the Germans although he saw some of their horrors working for Wild Bill after the war. I got to know first generation here - much remorse, nice people - can't generalize.
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  #4512  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Dad did logistics planning in WW2. Would not talk about it much. Best I could gather got dropped off on S. Pacific island with another grunt ( he was master sarg. at the time). Scouted, radioed and then got picked up when Allied forces liberated the island. Said he saw the Japanese do horrific things to the native islanders. Ended up hating them more then the Germans although he saw some of their horrors working for Wild Bill after the war. I got to know first generation here - much remorse, nice people - can't generalize.
I was in the Peace Corps and lived on Guadalcanal. So I know the stories firsthand (e.g. - Jacob Vouza). The interesting thing was we PC volunteers worked side-by-side with our equivalent Japanese volunteers (young people just like us).

We had a blast hanging out together. They were sweet, fun people.

I was also there for the 50th anniversary of the battle - when veterans from both sides came in for the ceremonies. Now THAT was interesting...former enemies coming together. For the most part, by-gones were by-gones. There were shared stories and tears - and just great old men letting it go.

It was pretty cool.
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  #4513  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

My dear old Dad was a WWII vet from New Guinea.
He wouldn't even let me buy him a Sony TV.
I'm sure he would not ride in my Outback.

He was pissed that I was bringing him take out dinners from Uwajimaya, the big, fancy Japanese super market a mile from his house.

" Iwo Jima! Iwo Jima! I'm not going in that Iwo Jima store!"
He was a tough old bird and he never forgot and he never forgave.
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  #4514  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I agree Bob, let's see more good looking steel boats. Like this one.






























45' Waterline built in 1995. Currently listed by Swiftsure in Seattle
Swiftsure Yachts (Seattle, WA)
w

Whats the price tag on that one? How any decades of cruising freedom does the average wage earner have to give up for that kind of "style over substance"? Will the joys of having that kind of interior, for a short remaining portion of one's life, be more fun than spending the same amount of money playing full time, for decades? Is posting pictures of a new, unlived in interior, as a comparison to one which has been lived in for decades ,an attempt to mislead.
Are would be cruisers who are gullible enough to buy it, likely to spend as much of their lives cruising, as someone with more practical, utilitarian priorities? Will they have more fun than those who took the "low cost, what works" route, instead of the "work most of your lives away, for the priorities of others" route?

Comparing new boats with brand new interiors and bilges, or recently completely refit and repainted, with those of boats which have been used and lived aboard for decades, and actually gone a lot of places, is deliberately misleading (ie. lying?)
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 06-18-2014 at 07:13 PM.
  #4515  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

What a beautiful boat. Be a pleasure to cruise in her.
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  #4516  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
practical, utilitarian priorities
Is that where "Proletarian" was derived from?

We get it Brent, we really, really do - you don't like nice stuff.

It's good that you are satisfied with your minimalist, utilitarian lifestyle. I think we all strive to be satisfied with our lives.

Some, or most of us require more than you do in order to be satisfied - more beauty in our lives and possessions, more satisfaction and accomplishment from our life's work, more family relationships etc. etc.

Not everyone out there aspires to the life of a minimalist loner, very few do in fact.


P.S. I don't see any reason why one of your boats couldn't look about as good as that Waterline - it doesn't take any more work to make something look good as to make it look ugly or plain - all it takes is some artistry and the will.
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Last edited by SloopJonB; 04-16-2014 at 07:37 PM.
  #4517  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Shank:
I can't connect to that link.
If you asked me to guess at your limit of positive stability I would guess that it is 123 degrees. That's a fine number. By the way, I am really good at guessing these numbers.

I'll see if I can connect to that link again.
On BD.net, Tad Roberts calculated the AVS on my 36 at 165 degrees, and Jim calculated it at 175 degrees ,posted on the origamiboats site.
Bob claims that 123 degrees is "a fine number",but 165 and 175 degrees is "unstable?"
Ya sure , Bob!
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  #4518  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by shank32095 View Post
Brent, Enough already, why can you not just lighten up. I live in Bahia Brazil and see my fair share of dumpster diving on a daily basis. People don't do this because they want to, they do it to survive. They don't do it so they can brag about how they have a bunch of time to hang on the beach while all the successful people are at work earning an income that will allow them to live their individual perception of a good life. So be it that there are folks out there with limited funds who would like to sail but can only afford one of your boats built of refuse. You have grasp a very, very small portion of the market that don't care if their boats look like crap and have much more time than money/job so as to spend attempting to finish a boat you tack together in a weekend. Your clients are a really small percentage of sailors yet you continually rant that anyone that wishes to purchase an expensive beautiful vessel is ignorant and should adhere to the gospel of BS. Just barely below the surface of your rants there lies a thick layer of obvious envy towards those more accomplished than you and those with more resources. Fact is there are many people like myself that have worked hard and smart and we think nothing of throwing down a half million for a vessel that makes us happy. Personally I would not take one of your BS boats if you gave it to me but then again I am amazed how much money someone else might pay for such a boat, it amounts to infinitely too much ! Different strokes for different folks. I appears to me that everyone on this blog, especially you, would be served well by just sharing information and not condemnation.
I share the information that one can cruise without needing a lot of money, for which elitists, and those selling overpriced and inferior boats and equipment , are constantly attacking me.
Those who use resourcefulness and innovation instead of money are probably a tiny percentage of the marina queen crowd you meet in marinas, especially in Brazil, but they are over 95% of the people I meet here out cruising full time, who never tie up in marinas , who marina occupants are unlikely to meet all that often ,and who don't believe in giving up the cost of full time cruising for a lifestyle which involves working 11 months a year while their boats lie dormant in a marina. The marina crowd's cruising is made up of getting drunk in a yacht club bar, while spouting cruising advice for those who do what the marina queen crowd keep giving uninformed advice on , to those who are actually doing what the marina crowd keep talking about ,but only do a month or less a year.
My posts are aimed at people who cruise in Canada, where there is a large percentage of people who are neither rich nor poor, unlike some countries where there are only super rich or desperately poor, and the former never meeting the latter , convince themselves that they don't exist..
Lately I have been meeting increasing numbers of people over 70 who are cruising full time, year round, and don't stay in marinas for the winters, if ever.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-16-2014 at 08:02 PM.
  #4519  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent,

você é um rei especial de idiota
  #4520  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Is that where "Proletarian" was derived from?


Some, or most of us require more than you do in order to be satisfied - more beauty in our lives and possessions, more satisfaction and accomplishment from our life's work, more family relationships etc. etc.

Not everyone out there aspires to the life of a minimalist loner, very few do in fact.


P.S. I don't see any reason why one of your boats couldn't look about as good as that Waterline - it doesn't take any more work to make something look good as to make it look ugly or plain - all it takes is some artistry and the will.
Most do. Sea Scene posted pictures of his boat on this discussion ,every bit as good looking as a Waterline to anyone with the experience to know what to look for.
Many of my clients have raised families and wouldn't trade their full time cruising lives for anything. Most have experienced the cookie cutter consumer lifestyle you advocate, and gave it up, with great relief. All could have stayed there. Enabling them to find and live the alternative, is one of my greatest accomplishments. I wouldn't trade that for any o f the squanderism "Accomplishments" of anyone.
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