Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 455 - SailNet Community
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post #4541 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Oh yeah. I knew that. I'm like that with my kitchen. I have to have all my cooking tools exactly in the right place or I throw a shitski fitski.
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post #4542 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Anyone who can draw a lines plan and/or accurately calculate a weight study has to have a big streak of it.

It's not true OCD until it starts to interfere with daily life. How about a person who has to count every tile in a restroom before they can leave?

Imagine their terror on finding they are in a 6 stall restroom completely tiled in one inch mosaic.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #4543 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

OCD. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Though I prefer the letters to be ordered alphabetically myself. CDO.

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post #4544 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

That may be true Jon about drawing lines. I can certainly see that. But I don't count tiles in bathrooms.

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post #4545 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
The gentleman who helped me design and execute the build of my Outbound is also a Waterline dealer. They are clearly the apex of what can be achieved in a mid sized steel yacht. In years past Kanter produced similar high quality yachts in steel but more recently Al. Brent need not leave Canada to see it done right. Unlike BS boats they are yachts. Builder went with steel thinking Al held paint poorly. The prep of the steel and painting is a work of beauty. Great thought was given to maintenance of the hull and systems so seeing pics of this boat after being cruised extensively and looking so fine are not surprising. His comments about filler and durability are bogus. Dutch yards are still making yachts ( not boats) of similar quality. If Brent like to broaden his horizons a trip to Puffin Yachts might surprise him. Again I've seen extensively cruised examples looking like they just splashed.

Several of my clients, including Steve on Silas Crosby, went to Waterline first. One look at the price tag, thinness of the plate and the fragility of the skeg and they came to me. All are glad they did.
The first time I walked into Waterline yachts, I mentioned that I am thinking of building one of those "Brentboats."
The owner snickered, and said "I don't know about resale value."
I replied "If I spend the cost of a new Waterline, I would be lucky to get half of what I paid, out of her. If I spend less than $10 K on a brentboat I will have no problem getting far more than that out of her."
He agreed that I have a point there.

Next time I introduced myself . He said "Great ! Give me your number ,so if they complain about my prices, I can send them to you."
I resisted the urge to say "If they complain about my prices, I will send them to you."

Since then I have seen Waterlines sold; for about half the new price. Meanwhile, many brentboats have been sold; for many times what their owners had into them. The higher the price tag, the greater the gap between original price and resale price, until they become a net loss.
Gullible, style over substance type consumers, remind me of last century Chinese women, hobbling along painfully for their entire lives on bound feet, while sarcastically ridiculing and laughing at those incredibly stupid European women, for so "Foolishly "allowing heir feet to become so large and "unstylish."

While suckers of consumerism hobble painfully along under the burden of debt, to keep up with the Joneses, persuing matters which either make absolutely no difference, or are a detriment to the function of a yacht , my more enlightened clients are sleeping in as long as they please, getting up whenever they please, and going sailing any time they please, for as long as they please ( while being snickered and laughed at by those people in the traffic lineups, going to work and groveling to a boss, to pay for their gullibility).

Definition of landlubber values:
Spending money you don't have, to buy things you don't need, to impress people you don't like!
Yes, I could put dainty knee high trip wires on, instead of proper solid lifelines. But I wont, because I would rather my boats look less trendy, than look stupid, to people with actual steel boat experience.
Yes I could put in teak sliding hatches, instead of a solid one piece door. But I won't, because I would rather my boat looked less trendy, than look stupid, to people with actual steel boat experience.
Fortunately, later Waterlines replaced teak hatches and toe rails ( dead vegetation) with stainless and aluminium. Sadly, their sliding hatches are still out of date contraptions.
I recently saw a steel boat in Maple Bay which the gullible would appreciate. It had such a high gloss finish, you couldn't tell it from a plastic boat. That would so dazzle the "style over substance" gullible, that they would probably fail to notice that it had no bow cleats whatever, nothing to tie up with which was anywhere near the bow. The nearest cleat to the bow was about 7 feet from it. They were far to fragile ( yachtie) to hold the boat in any kind of serious blow. Fine, if you only tie up in marinas! Useless for cruising beyond the land of marinas.
A cop I knew ordered an Amazon hull and decks in the 80s. He specified no primer. The builder put primer on anyway. When the cop had her sandblasted, he found out why they put primer on. To hide the bondo, til the cheque cleared.
Another found his longitudinals had a half inch tack every three feet holding them in. He tried to sue Amazon . Amazon folded.
Distortion is caused by welding. Less welding, less distortion. Origami boats have a fraction the amount of welding needed, compared to outdated methods, because they enable one to use full sized 8 ft by 36 ft sheets of steel . An origami boat would be much fairer than other boats, without their filler,even those built by first time builders..

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-17-2014 at 08:33 PM.
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post #4546 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I replied "If I spend the cost of a new Waterline I would be lucky to get half of what I paid, out of her. If I spend less than $10 K on a brentboat I will have no problem getting far more than that out of her."
He agreed that I have a point there.
Except for the fact that's not at all possible. More fairy rust and clown shoes Brent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Meanwhile many brentboats have been sold; for many times what their owners had into them.
Complete BS. Show us the actual numbers from your actual customers or pipe down. This kind of crap just don't fly bro.


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post #4547 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"You gullible, style over substance type consumers, remind me of last century Chinese women, hobbling along painfully for their entire lives on bound feet, while sarcastically ridiculing and laughing at those incredibly stupid European women for so "Foolishly "allowing heir feet to become so large and "unstylish."

While you hobble along under the burden of debt, to keep up with the Joneses persuing matters which either make absolutely no difference or are a detriment to the function of a yacht , my more enlightened clients are sleeping in as long as they please, getting up whenever they please, and going sailing any time they please, for as long as they please."

We are watching BS spiral slowly out of control. His posts just get angrier and angrier.

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post #4548 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
"You gullible, style over substance type consumers, remind me of last century Chinese women, hobbling along painfully for their entire lives on bound feet, while sarcastically ridiculing and laughing at those incredibly stupid European women for so "Foolishly "allowing heir feet to become so large and "unstylish."

While you hobble along under the burden of debt, to keep up with the Joneses persuing matters which either make absolutely no difference or are a detriment to the function of a yacht , my more enlightened clients are sleeping in as long as they please, getting up whenever they please, and going sailing any time they please, for as long as they please."

We are watching BS spiral slowly out of control. His posts just get angrier and angrier.
That tends to be what happens when one hears the truth and doesn't like the sound.
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post #4549 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I'm starting to hear "The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst" in Brent's posts.

In about ten days we will race FRANCIS LEE for the first time. That will be very exciting. I know we will have a great time.

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Last edited by bobperry; 04-17-2014 at 08:29 PM.
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post #4550 of 5317 Old 04-17-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Having enabled so many people to get out cruising in good, safe, affordable steel boats, which they could never have afforded otherwise, just keeps making me happier and happier, not angry, as it would Bob. You got it bass ackwards again , Bob! ( as usual)
The guy I sold my last boat to, told me that after seeing Waterline's prices, thought he would never be able to afford a steel boat in his lifetime. My boats and building methods made it possible for him, and much poorer people to own the best of new steel boats.
Knowing that has made me very happy, far beyond what mere money could ever do.

Apologies for speaking so far over your head, Bob! I understand such concepts and values being culturally beyond your capability of comprehending!
Maybe it's due to the crowd you hang out with!

You should get out ( cruising) more ! Meet some real people ,who live outside your consumerism bubble!

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-17-2014 at 08:52 PM.
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