Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 457 - SailNet Community
 1723Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #4561 of Old 04-17-2014
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,325
Thanks: 59
Thanked 65 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Here's more;
Attached Thumbnails
BS 6.jpg   BS 7.jpg   BS 8.jpg   BS 9.jpg   BS 10.jpg  

Brent Swain likes this.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to SloopJonB For This Useful Post:
Brent Swain (04-19-2014)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4562 of Old 04-17-2014
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,119
Thanks: 135
Thanked 125 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Dock
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

This one isn't a Brentboat. The liferails are too short. Very yachty...



This one is not nearly as ugly as the other ones...



Of course, they too ignored Brent's design on the liferails. Actually, it seems many of them ignored Brent.

Strange. I thought they were all grateful.

This one just makes me sad...



No boat should have to go through life looking like that.

This photo shows the real truth behind Brent's marketing program...



He's convinced his customers that "full time cruising" means hitting or sitting on hard stuff. Interesting approach. I really hope someone lets them know that that's not sailing.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 04-17-2014 at 11:55 PM.
smackdaddy is online now  
post #4563 of Old 04-18-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,950
Thanks: 1
Thanked 91 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

That green one looks ok. Not beautiful but not ugly. Clearly Brent had nothing to do with that deck.

I'm waiting to see Brent's own masterpiece.
Bring it on Brent.

That unfinished white boat has some very serious fairness issues aft. Looks awful. I think if I stood back and saw that shape I'd stop work too.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by bobperry; 04-18-2014 at 01:23 PM.
bobperry is offline  
post #4564 of Old 04-18-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,524
Thanks: 1
Thanked 167 Times in 150 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

This one is not nearly as ugly as the other ones...


To my eye, that one's not too bad at all. I can even picture owning something like that, at least as it appears from the pic... The ridiculous height of the boom is a bit of a mystery, however... Perhaps it needs to be that high to clear the lifeline rails originally spec'ed by Brent?

Most of us aren't shy about posting pics of our boats, I've always wondered what Brent's looked like, and figured one was simply buried too deeply in this thread for me to bother looking... Glad someone has finally issued the 'challenge', but it won't surprise me if he deems us Not Worthy of gazing upon such Exalted Beauty... :-)
Brent Swain likes this.

Last edited by JonEisberg; 04-18-2014 at 11:21 AM.
JonEisberg is offline  
post #4565 of Old 04-18-2014
Last Man Standing
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,119
Thanks: 135
Thanked 125 Times in 118 Posts
Rep Power: 9
     
Dock
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
To my eye, that one's not too bad at all. I can even picture owning something like that, at least as it appears from the pic... The ridiculous height of the boom is a bit of a mystery, however... Perhaps it needs to be that high to clear the lifeline rails originally spec'ed by Brent?

Most of us aren't shy about posting pics of our boats, I've always wondered what Brent's looked like, and figured one was simply buried too deeply in this thread for me to bother looking... Glad someone has finally issued the 'challenge', but it won't surprise me if he deems us Not Worthy of gazing upon such Exalted Beauty... :-)
I've posted a couple of close-ups I found of his boat (in the BS Marketing post). It's definitely not quite what he claims in terms of "perfection".

The problem is that when he does actually show the world his "perfect boat" - as it is now - the whole world immediately sees that his claims don't match reality. It's really that simple.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
smackdaddy is online now  
post #4566 of Old 04-19-2014
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,325
Thanks: 59
Thanked 65 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I think I've found the girl for Brent. Won't work, unsocial, unconcerned with esthetics or style, likes unusual colours, even comes with some of her own steel.


I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is offline  
post #4567 of Old 04-19-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,422
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
To my eye, that one's not too bad at all. I can even picture owning something like that, at least as it appears from the pic... The ridiculous height of the boom is a bit of a mystery, however... Perhaps it needs to be that high to clear the lifeline rails originally spec'ed by Brent?

Most of us aren't shy about posting pics of our boats, I've always wondered what Brent's looked like, and figured one was simply buried too deeply in this thread for me to bother looking... Glad someone has finally issued the 'challenge', but it won't surprise me if he deems us Not Worthy of gazing upon such Exalted Beauty... :-)
I usually put the boom 30 inches off the decks, as mine are. The owner did the rig on that boat in California, when I was in Haida Gwai. I have no idea why he put it so high.
Dale was the only other guy who had wire lifelines for several years, until he went cruising on another boat I had put solid life lines on, in Mexico last winter. . He came home and immediately put solid lifelines on the green one in Olympia.Until you have sailed with solid lifelines, its hard to appreciate the peace of mind it gives. Once you have you will never go back to trip wires.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4568 of Old 04-19-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,422
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Quick - choose one for your next boat.
Here's another pic of Silas Crosby.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4569 of Old 04-19-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,422
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: François Lucas

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I guess I was not clear. I was not talking about boats built in a shipyard but home built boats, literally on the backyard on a shed. But there are many that build them with chines on a shipyard and again, all OVNI line, that is hugely popular and are obviously built on a shipyard and very professionally have chines. That allows them to reduce costs and the price of the boats without a significant loss in performance.

Anyway it is more of a aesthetic preference than anything else. Some years ago I didn't like it...now I am used to them.

Since we are talking about amateur boat building and I believe that it is the main market for steel boats as well as for some aluminium ones I would like to post about some French NA that design for amateurs (and shipyards alike) mainly in Alu but also in steel. I believe it makes sense on this thread.

I will begin with François Lucas and his Hermine series, very popular among amateurs and that can also be built professionally:

naval architect nantes yacht designer racing sailing yacht cruising yacht motor boat workboat Réalisations - Designs Croisière

The Hermine 36 and the 40 are the more popular for amateur boat building:

The 36:


[[/URL]

The 40:








The 47:



Hermine 130



The Tp 44





and just for Classic 30 be satisfied let me put an Aluminium Lucas design without chines, even if most of his aluminium designs have chines. This one is not for amateur boat building but only for a professional shipyard.

The Aventurin 40





Regarding these boats the chines are more a convenience in what regards building easiness but as they are very well designed their negative influence in what regards boat performance are negligible, if any.

This was the NA that many years ago started the "fashion" of chines on open boats. When all boats have rounded hulls he designed a Plywood 40 class racer with chines, not vertical ones like the chines on the 60's but kind of modern ones, like they are used now. Everybody started to make jokes about the boat as a racing boat and about him regarding saying that the chines the way they were designed on the hull would better the performance. Well, the jokes stooped when the boat start winning races...and everybody went back to the drawing board again trying to understand why.
By comparison, these are the snub nosed abortions they consider "Attractive!"
Judge for yourself!

There is zero chance of getting the same structural resistance to a head on impact with such short based twin keels, as you get with 8 ft of attachment to the hull

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-19-2014 at 07:24 PM.
Brent Swain is offline  
post #4570 of Old 04-19-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,422
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 36 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Gilbert Caroff / Duflos

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Not true at all. I posted several steel boats on this thread without chines but they were not home built. Fact is that chines make the building much easier for an amateur and many (relatively) modern designs for the amateur boat builder have chines because they make building easier.

The previous post is about one of the most popular European designers for steel amateur boat building Gilbert Caroff, an old and famous one. In this case chines have not to do with a better performance but regarding making building easier. Even professional boat builders like Alubat - OVNI (alu) use chines as a building technique to make the boats easier to build and therefore cheaper since they, if well designed they don't take too much performance on a sailingboat (the ones that are not used expressly to increase performance on an otherwise rounded hull).

More about Caroff in a thread in MetalBoatbuilding:

"Gilbert Caroff (now semi-retired) has about 5000 boats of his design in the water, motor boats, canal boats and sailboats. He has made a speciality in exploratory and polar sailboats. He is well know for being the architect with the highest number of "civil" sailboat that have gone to the north pole, the antartic, and that have spend years in the ice and some even did the travel around the world through the north pole passages."

MetalBoatbuilding.org ? View topic - Gilbert Caroff-Duflos

Here, have a good look at a nice one with a rounded steel one, a Radford design. The difference is that for doing it this way you need a much more complex steel structure before putting the plates in. I am sure Brent or Mike can explain this to you in a much better way.





The same hull in an aluminium version:



Regards

Paulo
These are building methods waterline uses , identical to how metal boats have been built in the 50's. Waterline has hit the peak of craftsmanship, but their methods are 50s technology .Only origami represents any real progress in building methods (and the Aussie Gelignite 35 .)

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
Brent Swain is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 1 Week Ago 12:05 AM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome