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  #4981  
Old 07-10-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I think Miti has it. Lifelines and pulpits would be nice but not required. Did SPRAY have lifelines? I sure as hell would want them myself. I think the biggest negative to FRANCIS being a good long range cruising boat is the 10' draft. But I could reduce this easily to 8' without giving up too much performance. I know 8' works because ICON cruise the South Pacific very nicely drawing 8.3' with the keel retracted and 13.8' with the keel down.

It's a good conversation and fun to consider. I don't have any hard answers.
The Victoria BC TILLICUM is probably the closest "offshore cruising boat" I can think of to the general proportions of FRANCIS. That worked.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of FRANCIS the offshore cruising boat. Why not?
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  #4982  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Fast, weatherly, easy to sail, nice motion, well mannered, strongly built, tons of stability, what's not to like?

(OK, the draft would restrict you from some anchorages.)
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Storage, tankage, and the ability to crush rocks and punch holes in shipping containers, trawlers, etc. Additionally you can't easily set up a forge on the deck or weld a vice to it.
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Spray didn't have lifelines but you choose an interesting example Bob since captain Slocum was lost at sea as was the Spray. :-)
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

We could easily double the tankage on FRANCIS. There is lots of vacant volume in the boat. We don't need to weld a vice to the deck. There is not much need for welding on Frankie.

I chose SPRAY because when I consider what Slocum did and the I look at the boat I marvel that he made it that long.

My intent was never to propose FRANCIS as an offshore cruising boat I just didn't like seeing it having limitations imposed so cavalierly. In the right hands and with some minor mods I think FRANCIS could do just about anything on the water. But I'm dreaming again. For now we will enjoy the boat as it was intended to be used from the start. The boat is a lot of fun to sail.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Spray didn't have lifelines but you choose an interesting example Bob since captain Slocum was lost at sea as was the Spray. :-)
At the time it was speculated that he was likely run down by a steamer while asleep. Lack of lifelines likely had nothing to do with his demise.

Also he was along in age when it happened so he might have just died of old age in his sleep and the Spray simply sailed on until she was swamped or rotted away.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
We could easily double the tankage on FRANCIS. There is lots of vacant volume in the boat. We don't need to weld a vice to the deck. There is not much need for welding on Frankie.

I chose SPRAY because when I consider what Slocum did and the I look at the boat I marvel that he made it that long.

My intent was never to propose FRANCIS as an offshore cruising boat I just didn't like seeing it having limitations imposed so cavalierly. In the right hands and with some minor mods I think FRANCIS could do just about anything on the water. But I'm dreaming again. For now we will enjoy the boat as it was intended to be used from the start. The boat is a lot of fun to sail.
Bob/Kim, with not a great deal of freeboard and a long slim profile, I'm guessing FL slices through waves rather than bouncing over them.. Wouldn't she ship a lot of water over the deck out there in the Pacific??

(Hence my allusion to a submarine a few posts back... )
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Francis Lee is about the same beam and 10' LOA and 15' LWL longer than my Swede55. She weights just a tad more at 19,000#s.

The Swede55 tended to lift over the waves much more than plunge through them and that has been my limited experience with Francis Lee on Puget Sound. And this was in the normal short chop square waves of Puget Sound.

(I suspect how fast/hard you were to sail her would also contribute to how she handled waves.)

The waves in the Pacific have tended to be of a much longer period than on the Sound (at least in my experience) so I doubt she would be much of a submarine if sailed in a seaman like manner out in the ocean.

Nothing I have seen so far in her manners would keep me from sailing her in the open ocean. She is (as I have said before) very well mannered.

My lovely wife of 46 years does not like drama while sailing and so far she is delighted with the Francis Lee's calm comfortable manners.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Interesting... thanks, Kim
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

To my eye and mind, not that my mind is of any shape or form......

We need to look at from a design standpoint, and it may have been brought up many pages and posts back, as to the intent of the end user of a given boat. It may be strong enough, as pointed out re Frankie, my 28' on deck Jeanneau designed to a post fastnet ior half ton rating is also capable of going offshore etc. The question becomes, like my boat, is 20 gals of water, 7 gals of fuel enough to truly cross an ocean etc.

I know of a 74' motor cat that left Port Angelas after getting built here, now in or somewhere between PA and Panama where it will be a passenger ferry. THe 200 gals of fuel is fine for the intended usage, but the builder had to put another 200-400 in 50 gal drums to make it down the Wa to California coast to San Fransisco which is its first stop, filling the tank as it goes....not something I would find to fun.......but it will get to the final destination at some point in time.

I'm sure in the case of all three boats I have mentioned, ALL could cross an ocean per say just fine, with some appropriate mods. In the meantime, I am positive all the end users are happy with there boats.

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