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  #491  
Old 08-10-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Issue for me is you finally got your act together and are out long term cruising. Do you want to spend that time being concerned about hull maintenance, electrolysis and rust? If you brought a used boat regardless of review of the scantlings and the above discussion with it's delightful math do you have any idea of what's under you after a few years? Either you put years of sweat equality or the fruits of years of grinding out that paycheck into your boat. What's that boat worth when you hang up your spurs? What kind of shape is it going to be in? What will it take to keep it in that shape?
Brent can say what he wants but believe when you fall off that wave at hull speed or better on to the corner of a semi submerged container you're going to get a hole. Unless it's forward of a watertight bulkhead or you're in an ETAP you're in big trouble. For me the lack of performance and the maintenance concerns make steel problematic. Modern coatings are great. I'm 3 slips down from a 62' crewed trawleryacht as I write this. Gorgeous design in steel. I'm sure it was flamed zinced and has unobtainium epoxy up the whazoo. Painted white and pristine until you get real close and see the rust streaks.
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  #492  
Old 08-10-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Bob,
I would agree with you on that, ie where one has to have the same hull etc. BUT< one still sees folks trying to do numbers with out certain elements in the total equation, and things do not add up as they should in the end, to get to a point one wants to see vs how it will REALLY be!

marty
Although we never actually ran the numbers the redesign of Wolf's boat began as an effort to show how wetted surface could be reduced and the vertical center of gravity lowered without changing the basic hull shape of the boat. Then things got out of hand......oh well. ..No matter what else anyone sez, I know I had a good time!

Jeff,
From the hook on Synergy listening to a shore side band play Mustang Sally right after In The Midnight Hour. Must be thier Wilson Pickett set.
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  #493  
Old 08-10-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Are you doing the Buggaloo Jeff?

Take a video if you are.
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  #494  
Old 08-11-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post

Your discussion about the impact force might be more persuasive if you point out what particular page of the book supported your assertions. To suggest the readers have to read the whole book does not make sense.
Bryce
Bryce,

If you actually click on the link it takes you right to the page. The formula is right there. I am sorry that the other formula did not come out right when I posted it. It should have looked a lot more like F= m/vt but since I used a math code that this forum does not accept it looked right in my typing it up, but did not translate. Which is also why I have not posted the other formula here either, just the link.

I was going to write some other stuff here, but in all honesty I just decided to let it go. If you would like to build BS boats in your backyard knock yourself out. Personally I will take one of Bob's over BS any day and twice on Sunday.
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  #495  
Old 08-11-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by mark2gmtrans View Post
Bryce,

If you actually click on the link it takes you right to the page. The formula is right there. I am sorry that the other formula did not come out right when I posted it. It should have looked a lot more like F= m/vt but since I used a math code that this forum does not accept it looked right in my typing it up, but did not translate. Which is also why I have not posted the other formula here either, just the link.

I was going to write some other stuff here, but in all honesty I just decided to let it go. If you would like to build BS boats in your backyard knock yourself out. Personally I will take one of Bob's over BS any day and twice on Sunday.
So, What are you waiting for? Sounds a bit like all hat and no cows to me.
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  #496  
Old 08-11-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I really want a cow. I live in dairy farm country and I drive by dairy farms every day. I want some cows. I just don't want to have to do much shovelling. I have the hat already.
I even drive by a Bison farm. Now those are some serious cows.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

My dad was an agro scientist who started out working at a dairy. I once mentioned to him that if I was ever to be a farmer, the only thing I'd want was a dairy farm - lots of cows (I'd have Jerseys) and all that great stainless equipment and so forth.

He told me that owning a dairy farm was the closest thing to legal slavery that still existed - you HAVE to be there twice a day to milk them - NO days off, Ever, NO vacations, Ever, NO rest, Ever.

Oh well - I always liked boats better anyway.

As to bison - my first summer job was at the old Okanagan game farm. They had several female bison and one bull - that thing set a new standard for huge - I'm over 6' and I couldn't see over his shoulder. Their enclosure used telephone poles for fence posts and once he snapped one just by scratching against it.

Seeing one of those gigantic herds on the move 150 years ago must have been absolutely awesome & terrifying. To think that the First Nations hunted them with spears.....
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  #498  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jon:
Yeah I know. I'm just dreaming. Te Bison farm I drive by has, I think, one bull. He's as big as an outbuilding. He mostly sits under a tree. I think I know what he does the rest of the time. He can blot out the sun. I'd like to know what he has to say.
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Old 08-12-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I really want a cow. I live in dairy farm country and I drive by dairy farms every day. I want some cows. I just don't want to have to do much shovelling. I have the hat already.
I even drive by a Bison farm. Now those are some serious cows.
My grandfather used to tell about when he was a child and his parents had died how he went to live with an uncle on a dairy farm. When he was in the third grade they made him start milking the cows, and he was allowed to go to school only after getting all the work done, he dropped out of school later that year.

He learned to read while on an LST in WWII in the Pacific, he landed at Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Saipan, and many others. On his return from the war he went back to work at US Steel, where he later became the supervisor for all of the maintenance crews for all the US Steel plants in the Birmingham/Bessemer Alabama area. He lost a leg on the job there, in an accident caused by someone who was drinking on the job, but a year later he was back at work and retired at age 70. He once told me that working in the dairy was the hardest thing he had ever done, that said a lot coming from someone who had done so many hard things.

I chased cows for a living as a kid, in the summers and later full time for a year, it was cold, hard, nasty work, but it was honest work and it gave me a very different outlook on life. I certainly do not want any cattle these days that are not cut down to a size that fits on the plate, I prefer my cows medium rare.

I do not think that there are many people still alive who truly know what it was like to work cattle on a dairy back around 1900, but the ones of us who know the ones who did do it know that it made for one tough cowboy. It is too bad that we really do not have too many of the old family farms anymore, but I guess the kids that would be working on them are probably glad.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Did Sturgis on the bike a few years back. Going through Custer a chap on a full dresser got to close to a bison. Bike and him were tossed in to the air. Bike landed on him. He died. No thanks on bison farming. Don't want to be near anything that big and stupid. Now a couple of alpacas who can take care of themselves and won't kill me when I harvest their wool maybe but even growing beef seems like real work. Did a short stint helping out on a diary co-op in upstate NY. No thanks on that either.
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