Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 500 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1722Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #4991  
Old 07-11-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
"Nubile Southern Sailor"
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Columbus, Ga
Posts: 4,087
Thanks: 129
Thanked 158 Times in 154 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

the way I see it is you dont mod the boat, you mod your sailing style

refitting is fine, but sail the boat you have at its best intended way, and suit your sailing skills to the boat

all too often you see boats that arent designed for a certain type of sailing completely destroyed and modded only to anger the owner after realizing his "redesign" didnt pan out like he wanted to

Im not saying a racing machine cannot be modded to cruise, what Im saying is dont make a motorsailor into a volvo ocean boat, and dont make a laser a cruiser...

when I see people complain or emphasize tankage especially fuel, and in many cases water as characteristics of an offshore or cruiser capable boat it irks me a bit...

you adapt to your boat, unless huge deficiencies or design errors are noted...

take note of design parameters, construction, strength, redundancy etc...

just sayin
Jeff_H and bobperry like this.
__________________
Islander 36 now FOR SALE!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quick reply to this message
  #4992  
Old 07-11-2014
djodenda's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kirkland, Washington
Posts: 1,613
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 10
djodenda will become famous soon enough djodenda will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimbottles View Post
Francis Lee is about the same beam and 10' LOA and 15' LWL longer than my Swede55. She weights just a tad more at 19,000#s.

The Swede55 tended to lift over the waves much more than plunge through them and that has been my limited experience with Francis Lee on Puget Sound. And this was in the normal short chop square waves of Puget Sound.

(I suspect how fast/hard you were to sail her would also contribute to how she handled waves.)

The waves in the Pacific have tended to be of a much longer period than on the Sound (at least in my experience) so I doubt she would be much of a submarine if sailed in a seaman like manner out in the ocean.

Nothing I have seen so far in her manners would keep me from sailing her in the open ocean. She is (as I have said before) very well mannered.

My lovely wife of 46 years does not like drama while sailing and so far she is delighted with the Francis Lee's calm comfortable manners.
I'm curious how she will perform in the large rips we get here (Pt. Hudson, Cattle Pass on a big ebb, etc)....
__________________
David

1987 CS 36 Merlin "Kyrie"

"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown
Quick reply to this message
  #4993  
Old 07-11-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: PNW
Posts: 62
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 3
kimbottles is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by djodenda View Post
I'm curious how she will perform in the large rips we get here (Pt. Hudson, Cattle Pass on a big ebb, etc)....
So far the couple rips she has gone through didn't seem to bother her at all either under sail or under power.

I think the narrow beam works well for her under just about all circumstances.

I have had to power her home directly upwind in 20-25Knots after some of the Thursday races and she punches right through the short steep square shaped chop with very little loss of speed.

So far I am very, very happy with the way this vessel has turned out. She has greatly exceeded my expectations and hopes.
Quick reply to this message
  #4994  
Old 07-11-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
Thanks: 1
Thanked 80 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

When I designed FRANCIS I had in mind a nice, all round, good mannered vessel that would perform well in all conditions. If I had thought that in our typical tide rip/chop there would have been some behavioral anomaly I would have changed the design.

Simple as that.
If you are sitting there wringing your hands waiting for FRANCIS to show "the dark side" I'm afraid you are going to be in for a long wait.

This is far from my first design.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to bobperry For This Useful Post:
JomsViking (07-13-2014)
  #4995  
Old 07-11-2014
I can't re Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern Alberta / Southern California
Posts: 35
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
goat is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Time for a compromise.



You're welcome.

goat
MedSailor and bigdogandy like this.
Quick reply to this message
  #4996  
Old 07-11-2014
djodenda's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kirkland, Washington
Posts: 1,613
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 10
djodenda will become famous soon enough djodenda will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
If you are sitting there wringing your hands waiting for FRANCIS to show "the dark side" I'm afraid you are going to be in for a long wait.


No hand-wringing here, Bob.. I was thinking her long waterline and narrow beam would be pretty useful in that case..

I was thinking she's long enough that she'd be sitting on top of a couple of those nasty square waves at the same time...

I remember something you said a while back about the ideal waterline for the Salish Sea...
__________________
David

1987 CS 36 Merlin "Kyrie"

"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!" -Krusty the Clown

Last edited by djodenda; 07-11-2014 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Didn't read right.. Remember -> I Remember
Quick reply to this message
  #4997  
Old 07-11-2014
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,632
Thanks: 5
Thanked 101 Times in 77 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I think that Christian Hess's post# 4991 rightly gets to the heart of a bigger matter, namely the whole nebulous issue of defining what is an ocean going vessel, distance cruiser- and/or cruiser for that matter. It seems like so many of these discussions come down to individuals very narrow definitions of cruising, and therefore the 'necessities' that a cruising boat should include. And when an individual decides that his definition of curising is the only right definition, then any boat which does not meet that definition isn't a good cruising boat.

But in reality, we all define how we intend to use our boats, where we intend to sail, what we are comfortable with, the risks we are willing to take, the budget we can spend, and the benefits we demand. And it is within that collection of factors that the definition emerges and that a boat is suitable for its owner and that owner's useage.

And while there are a long list of boats that for any one of us would be very poor choice for our needs, tastes, and ambitions, many of these boats may be a perfect fit for some other person who ideally is the fellow who owns her.

So when I look at Frankie, I see a design which is precisely designed around that owner's needs, tastes, and ambitions and which seems to be precisely what the doctor ordered for that owner.

When the discussion shifted to whether FRANCIS could be a "trans-oceanic Cruiser", I would have to ask for whom. I would think that she could make a great trans-oceanic cruiser for someone whose primary interest was in the passage rather than grand accommodations once in port. Frankly, FRANCIS would be a far superior trans-oceanic Cruiser than the list of 50 year old Alberg-Tripp-Luders-Rhodes-S&S designs that seem to get dredged up everytime someone posts about going distance cruising. Certainly she should be a lot more seaworthy, seakindly, and faster, with more carrying capacity. She may actually be easier to handle in a broad range of conditions. People making long passages have chosen to eschew lifelines for all kinds of reasons. I believe that Pardeys did without lifelines for many years, as have many of the truly traditional and historic cruising boats that I have encountered in my life.

And for every owner who thinks his boat is perfect, and for every doubting critic, there is bound to be a major chasm formed by the way they see their own one true set of requirements and the way that others see their own one true light.

I saw this phenomina when I bought my own boat. When I bought my boat, my long term plan was to sail her for a decade or so on the Chesapeake and US east coast. Eventually I wanted to sail her to Europe and spend some years poking around the edges of the continent. I spoke to a collection of sister ship owners, quite a few had done major short-handed ocean passages and cruised long distance on sisterships. They descibed her as a bit spartan, not built for tall folks, and quite seaworthy and fast. They made a point that you have to be disciplined about not loading the boat up with a bunch of 'useless stuff', but that she had plenty of capacity to carry what was needed to feed, house and repair the boat and crew.

At the time that I bought the old girl, there was a lot of criticism of my choice. At one point, I read through the criticism and thought that they were right that Synergy's design could not do all the things these folks thought a cruising boat needed to do, but I only needed a cruising boat, which did the things that I wanted her to do, and she appeared to do those things very well.

It is the same for FRANCIS, she appears to do everything that Kim wanted her to do and more. If someone else chose her to make ocean passage, assuming that person was knowledgeable, they would size her up and say, she may not do everything that someone else thinks they they need, but she does precisely what I need. And if that person concluded that modifications were necessary, within reason the compromises and cost to make those modifications would make sense to that person even if they do not make sense to us, and might not have made sense to Kim or Bob when FRANCIS was conceived and constructed.

In other words, any problem with FRANCIS as an ocean cruiser comes from the mind of the person defining that problem from thier own point of view, rather than from inherent issues with FRANCIS herself.

Jeff
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Jeff_H For This Useful Post:
JomsViking (07-13-2014)
  #4998  
Old 07-11-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: PNW
Posts: 62
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 3
kimbottles is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Well said Jeff.
Quick reply to this message
  #4999  
Old 07-11-2014
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,769
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Jeff said it better than my attempt a few posts back.

marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Quick reply to this message
  #5000  
Old 07-12-2014
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,278
Thanks: 1
Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
tommays will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats



















Messy fugly metal work makes my head explode, i am about to use a different steam fitter at work or start doing it myself again because he does the pipe runs in a way that so lacks any feng shui it looks like hell and is confusing to use and i get every-time i look at it
bobperry likes this.
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by tommays; 07-12-2014 at 05:31 AM.
Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 06:08 PM
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 04-06-2012 01:45 AM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 06:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 09:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:46 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.