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  #5021  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Dirtyfloats View Post
Also, i have seen ripped apart a plastic boat with a 1 ton pickup, and 30 feet of chain. We called it the truck saw, and the heavily built 1960 glass, didn't even try to put up a fight...
Dirty - you need to understand that no one here is claiming that "plastic boats" can withstand backhoes, trucksaws, or chainsaws.

The point here is that no sailboat out there is designed to withstand these things - or to survive continually pounding on rocks and reefs. That's not the point of any sailboat on earth. The point of a sailboat is to sail in water - under the guidance of a skipper with at least enough navigational skill to be able to avoid rocks and reefs.

The exception to this rule is obviously Brent. To Brent, the primary design function of a sailboat is to hit rocks, sit on reefs for weeks, and stand-up to backhoes. And, actually, they're very well suited to that. That's just not the kind of sailing very many people do. So these kinds of examples are silly.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-14-2014 at 12:08 PM.
  #5022  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

wait a minute there are boats that survive reef hits for days and days on end only to be pulled off and sail off into the sunset...

in all those cases those boats were steel...(edited to say this is a stretch of the truth, jajaja)

this is in no way a total agreement with brents assertions its a testament to those particular boats, designs and builders...
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Last edited by christian.hess; 07-14-2014 at 03:14 PM.
  #5023  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

And trucks and cara are designed to drive on the road. However safety and.security are designed into them because no matter how good a driver someone is, accidents will always happen. Which is why people often prefer heavily built vehicles over sporty, fast , luxurious ones.

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  #5024  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Dirtyfloats View Post
And trucks and cara are designed to drive on the road. However safety and.security are designed into them because no matter how good a driver someone is, accidents will always happen. Which is why people often prefer heavily built vehicles over sporty, fast , luxurious ones.
Traffic on roads and on water cannot be compared, most design requirements are completely different.

Then I really challenge your statement that most prefer heavy built vehicles - in my experience most selects acrs based on capacity, safety (which has been proven is not at all the same as heavy) and so on.
From the cars I see, most seems to prefer german cars, which all are fast, and somewhat luxurious. (not my taste, but that is another thing).


Maybe, Dirty, you should tell more about who you are?


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  #5025  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I'm obviously not comparing road traffic to boat traffic. That's ridiculous. I'm just saying accidents are something to consider.
North of the 50th parallel, the preferred vehicle seems to be larger, and more heavily built.
We have actual nature to contend with...

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  #5026  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Dirtyfloats View Post
I'm obviously not comparing road traffic to boat traffic. That's ridiculous. I'm just saying accidents are something to consider.
North of the 50th parallel, the preferred vehicle seems to be larger, and more heavily built.
We have actual nature to contend with...

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That's the bottom line here...preferences based on conditions. And if Brent could let that stand, we wouldn't be having this debate. But he can't. According to his schpiel, Brentboats are the "best" preference for "all" conditions - and plastic boats are deathtraps. And any reasonable person can see that this is ridiculous.

I completely understand the desire to be inside an impenetrable shell if one is always afraid of hitting stuff or being hit (the examples Brent always uses). If that's the way one thinks, it makes perfect sense for that to be the major guiding factor in one's preference of boat (e.g. - "heavy is safe"). This fear of collision becomes the "conditions" one plans to sail in - which informs the choice of boat. And, rocks and reefs notwithstanding, that actually makes some sense in high latitude sailing where ice is an actual threat - or in uncharted or questionably charted waters.

BUT, if you are not planning on hitting a lot of stuff and not running into backhoes with your boat, this impenetrable shell that is heavy and slow and prone to rust, is not really necessary. To put it another way, frequent collisions with rocks and reefs or even running your boat up onto a log boom at hull speed to "anchor it" - are not the "conditions" you sail your boat in. Rather, you seek out the conditions of the warmer, sexier parts of the world where bikinis for the ladies are the choice over elk skins. And you pay attention to your charts. There are hundreds/thousands of plastic boats safely circumnavigating the earth every year that prove this.

Preferences and conditions. I prefer bikinis over backhoes.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-15-2014 at 02:56 PM.
  #5027  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Christian:
"in all those cases those boats were steel..."

That is simply not true. Hell I had one of my FT10m's pound on rocks in Sydney for two days and all the damage was to the keel fin and trunk. The boat is racing again. That is a lightly built racing boat.
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  #5028  
Old 07-14-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I can certainly see the safety advantage of steel. I've seen enough nasty floating stuff to make that obvious. The other advantage (to me) is that you're not dealing with all the problems that can be encountered and equipment needed in FRP layup, from having moulds to vacuum bagging, to getting the chemical mix and timing of layering right. For a DIY boat builder, welding steel together seems more do-able, much akin to wood boat building. A good welder and a cutting torch and you're in business. If I were going to build a sailboat from scratch, I would definitely consider steel (or aluminum).

Is the hard chine really an issue. I would think that steel can be fit very similar to wood planking. With some good templates and the right cutting equipment for making long, exact cuts, why would a hard chine be necessary? Brent?
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  #5029  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
If I were going to build a sailboat from scratch, I would definitely consider steel (or aluminum).
For the record, I totally agree with you here. No way would I EVER try to build a fiberglass boat myself. Aluminum would be my choice as well.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I see no problem at all with well placed and well designed chines. I completely agree that with alu or steel a good welder can do just about everything required in the build process while composite grp requires a variety of skills and processes.

I have never been "anti-steel". I am just anti BS.

I did a beautful double chine steel version of the Tayana 37 for a guy in Alaska The boat was called FINVARA. Unfortunatly the client, an ex pro football player, very big guy, dropped dead while walking down the street. I don't think he was over 40 years old at the time. I lost track of the boat after that.
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