Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 512 - SailNet Community
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post #5111 of 5317 Old 07-19-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Panope wins.


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post #5112 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

OK, so here is an idea I have been kicking around in my head for a while:

Step 1. Hire an engineering wizz (Tim Nolan, Jim Franklin etc.) to design a fiberglass to aluminum hull/deck joint that is absolutely leak-proof and permenant.

Step 2. Pick out your favorite moulded composite boat. Go to the current owners of the hull mold and pay them to lay-up a nice solid glass and epoxy hull (for me, I would be talking to the guys over at Cape George Yachts, about 15 minutes from my house).

Step 3. Hire a sailboat designer wizz (Bob Perry) to to draw up gorgeous deck and house structures with all the tricks for perfect ergonomics and sailing function.

Step 4. Fabricate deck and house structure from welded aluminum plate. Attach deck to hull per step 1.

Step 5. Fit out interior as desired.

The above hybrid construction technique would take advantage of the strong suits of both materials while avoiding some of thier pitfalls.

Solid glass/epoxy moulded hull gives beautiful curvy shapes, no blisters, great strength, no electrolysis, no rust.

Welded aluminum deck/house structure means everything welded on with no (few) penetrations, no soggy cores, no repetive re-bedding, easy to attach super strong bollards/chain plates/anchor gear/etc., no need for much paint on the aluminum as the nice shinny hull will give the boat some pizzazz.

I have heard of some builders that have experimented with the exact opposite of what I propose (aluminum hull with glass deck/house). To my way of thinking, they got it absolutely ass-backwards.

What do you think? Have I completely lost my marbles?

Steve
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post #5113 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

SloopJonB: I guess a little showing off once in a while isn't too bad a thing.

Smackdaddy: Everyone who enjoys their boat is a winner.

Steve
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post #5114 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Very nice work. Neat stuff. Love that octagon to round splice! In trying to find the actual comparison of aluminum vs fiberglass, found this website which gives a nice chart of comparative properties: http://www.afpfiberglass.com/pdf/comp-allum-insert.pdf
Note the weight and coefficient of expansion comparison. The CoE seems to be a bit worrisome in any deck to hull joint over time.

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
SloopJonB: I guess a little showing off once in a while isn't too bad a thing.

Smackdaddy: Everyone who enjoys their boat is a winner.

Steve
You're obviously much more magnanimous than I.


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post #5116 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Panope - I'm curious about that fuel sump setup - firstly, how are bronze & alloy inferior to S/S & alloy? We all know about alloy & S/S corroding together.

Second, why did you use screw in elbows & nipples instead of simply welding on alloy elbows, maybe with flared lips on them ALA automotive fuel & brake lines to secure the hose connections?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #5117 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Now you're just showing off!

You need to give BS some style lessons. You seem to sort of subscribe to his underlying philosophy of strong & simple & foolproof...............
There are many parts of Brent's boat building philosophy that I agree with wholeheartedly. It comes from the boating background provided by my dad. I am certain that if my dad had built a Brent boat, I would have given it the same love and attention that this Colvin recieved.

That said, I am equally sure that if I had grown up on go-fast racer type boats, I would be showing pictures of cool, high tech, carbon fiber parts that I had laid-up. I am I little envious when out on the water and a humdrum composite boat goes gliding by, pointing 10 degrees higher and a knot or two faster.

Steve
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post #5118 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Panope - I'm curious about that fuel sump setup - firstly, how are bronze & alloy inferior to S/S & alloy? We all know about alloy & S/S corroding together.

Second, why did you use screw in elbows & nipples instead of simply welding on alloy elbows, maybe with flared lips on them ALA automotive fuel & brake lines to secure the hose connections?
SS and marine grade aluminum actually do fairly well together. Definitely better than Bronze given bronze's lower position on the galvonic metals chart.

I think many people have a negative view of SS and Aluminum due to the widespread use of cast aluminum (crappy aluminum) and SS in sailboat deck hardware. My experience with 5000 series aluminum plate or 6061 series aluminum extrusions fastened with SS is very favorable.

I chose to weld aluminum couplings (cut in half) as that was what was available locally on the day I was buildiing the sump. Maybe we should include A.D.D. (along with the O.C.D.) to my diagnosis?

It is actually standard tank building procedure to weld female threads. Allows one the freedom to change fittings as needs change.

Steve
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post #5119 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Panope:
"Step 1. Hire an engineering wizz (Tim Nolan, Jim Franklin etc.) to design a fiberglass to aluminum hull/deck joint that is absolutely leak-proof and permanant."

This has already been done. My 63' WILD HORSES has an alu hull and a composite deck. The boat is now over ten years old and as good as new with no hull to deck joint issues. The boat was built by Jim Betts, now in Anacortes, and Jimk is a whizz with alu details.

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post #5120 of 5317 Old 07-20-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob, with the WILD HORSES hull/deck joint, was there a provision to let the two materials expand and contract at different rates or did you just fasten the **** out of it and force them to expand and contract in unison?

Steve

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