Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 512 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1723Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #5111  
Old 07-20-2014
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 98
Thanked 98 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Panope wins.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Quick reply to this message
  #5112  
Old 07-20-2014
Panope's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Panope is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

OK, so here is an idea I have been kicking around in my head for a while:

Step 1. Hire an engineering wizz (Tim Nolan, Jim Franklin etc.) to design a fiberglass to aluminum hull/deck joint that is absolutely leak-proof and permenant.

Step 2. Pick out your favorite moulded composite boat. Go to the current owners of the hull mold and pay them to lay-up a nice solid glass and epoxy hull (for me, I would be talking to the guys over at Cape George Yachts, about 15 minutes from my house).

Step 3. Hire a sailboat designer wizz (Bob Perry) to to draw up gorgeous deck and house structures with all the tricks for perfect ergonomics and sailing function.

Step 4. Fabricate deck and house structure from welded aluminum plate. Attach deck to hull per step 1.

Step 5. Fit out interior as desired.

The above hybrid construction technique would take advantage of the strong suits of both materials while avoiding some of thier pitfalls.

Solid glass/epoxy moulded hull gives beautiful curvy shapes, no blisters, great strength, no electrolysis, no rust.

Welded aluminum deck/house structure means everything welded on with no (few) penetrations, no soggy cores, no repetive re-bedding, easy to attach super strong bollards/chain plates/anchor gear/etc., no need for much paint on the aluminum as the nice shinny hull will give the boat some pizzazz.

I have heard of some builders that have experimented with the exact opposite of what I propose (aluminum hull with glass deck/house). To my way of thinking, they got it absolutely ass-backwards.

What do you think? Have I completely lost my marbles?

Steve
chall03 likes this.
Quick reply to this message
  #5113  
Old 07-20-2014
Panope's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Panope is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

SloopJonB: I guess a little showing off once in a while isn't too bad a thing.

Smackdaddy: Everyone who enjoys their boat is a winner.

Steve
chall03 and Jaramaz like this.
Quick reply to this message
  #5114  
Old 07-20-2014
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,914
Thanks: 66
Thanked 66 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Very nice work. Neat stuff. Love that octagon to round splice! In trying to find the actual comparison of aluminum vs fiberglass, found this website which gives a nice chart of comparative properties: http://www.afpfiberglass.com/pdf/comp-allum-insert.pdf
Note the weight and coefficient of expansion comparison. The CoE seems to be a bit worrisome in any deck to hull joint over time.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Quick reply to this message
  #5115  
Old 07-20-2014
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 98
Thanked 98 Times in 92 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panope View Post
SloopJonB: I guess a little showing off once in a while isn't too bad a thing.

Smackdaddy: Everyone who enjoys their boat is a winner.

Steve
You're obviously much more magnanimous than I.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Quick reply to this message
  #5116  
Old 07-20-2014
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,928
Thanks: 58
Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Panope - I'm curious about that fuel sump setup - firstly, how are bronze & alloy inferior to S/S & alloy? We all know about alloy & S/S corroding together.

Second, why did you use screw in elbows & nipples instead of simply welding on alloy elbows, maybe with flared lips on them ALA automotive fuel & brake lines to secure the hose connections?
__________________
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Quick reply to this message
  #5117  
Old 07-20-2014
Panope's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Panope is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Now you're just showing off!

You need to give BS some style lessons. You seem to sort of subscribe to his underlying philosophy of strong & simple & foolproof...............
There are many parts of Brent's boat building philosophy that I agree with wholeheartedly. It comes from the boating background provided by my dad. I am certain that if my dad had built a Brent boat, I would have given it the same love and attention that this Colvin recieved.

That said, I am equally sure that if I had grown up on go-fast racer type boats, I would be showing pictures of cool, high tech, carbon fiber parts that I had laid-up. I am I little envious when out on the water and a humdrum composite boat goes gliding by, pointing 10 degrees higher and a knot or two faster.

Steve
Quick reply to this message
  #5118  
Old 07-20-2014
Panope's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Panope is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Panope - I'm curious about that fuel sump setup - firstly, how are bronze & alloy inferior to S/S & alloy? We all know about alloy & S/S corroding together.

Second, why did you use screw in elbows & nipples instead of simply welding on alloy elbows, maybe with flared lips on them ALA automotive fuel & brake lines to secure the hose connections?
SS and marine grade aluminum actually do fairly well together. Definitely better than Bronze given bronze's lower position on the galvonic metals chart.

I think many people have a negative view of SS and Aluminum due to the widespread use of cast aluminum (crappy aluminum) and SS in sailboat deck hardware. My experience with 5000 series aluminum plate or 6061 series aluminum extrusions fastened with SS is very favorable.

I chose to weld aluminum couplings (cut in half) as that was what was available locally on the day I was buildiing the sump. Maybe we should include A.D.D. (along with the O.C.D.) to my diagnosis?

It is actually standard tank building procedure to weld female threads. Allows one the freedom to change fittings as needs change.

Steve
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Panope For This Useful Post:
AlaskaMC (07-20-2014)
  #5119  
Old 07-20-2014
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,793
Thanks: 1
Thanked 81 Times in 77 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Panope:
"Step 1. Hire an engineering wizz (Tim Nolan, Jim Franklin etc.) to design a fiberglass to aluminum hull/deck joint that is absolutely leak-proof and permanant."

This has already been done. My 63' WILD HORSES has an alu hull and a composite deck. The boat is now over ten years old and as good as new with no hull to deck joint issues. The boat was built by Jim Betts, now in Anacortes, and Jimk is a whizz with alu details.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quick reply to this message
  #5120  
Old 07-20-2014
Panope's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington State
Posts: 33
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Panope is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob, with the WILD HORSES hull/deck joint, was there a provision to let the two materials expand and contract at different rates or did you just fasten the **** out of it and force them to expand and contract in unison?

Steve

Last edited by Panope; 07-20-2014 at 03:16 PM.
Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 06:08 PM
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 04-06-2012 01:45 AM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 06:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 09:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.