Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 53 - SailNet Community
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post #521 of 5317 Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
BS is missing in action. He probably can't stand it that this is the weekend of the Perry Rendezvous where 50 of my boats will gather for a big party. On the other hand maybe he's headed down here in his BS boat. I would really, truly like to meet him on the dock.
I can only dream.
Just spent a week cruising with a friend around Cortes island ., no internet access in remote lakes ,but great swimming , fishing and hiking. I don't have much interest in the crowded south this time of year, so I'm up here well into the fall, when the guys who have to go back to work, to pay for their super expensive waterline yachts, have long gone back to work. I remain where they work all year to spend a couple of weeks at.I can listen to how they are enjoying that super paint and bondo job, by listening to the traffic report in the morning ,before I go back to sleep for another hour. In some falls , I have swam comfortably in the lakes here into mid October . Sure hope we have another one of those falls . Waterline yachts are the few well built commercially made steel boats available ( at a huge price) . In practical terms, they have absolutely no advantage over mine, and some disadvantages . As for aesthetics, anyone can check out the photos in the origamiboats site and judge for themselves. You wont find many 18 inch side decks or Bobs , style over substance, "decorative "mini stanchions there
I remember walking into Waterline Yachts and introducing myself . Ed said "Great! can I get your email address ? If anyone complains about my prices , I will send them to you."
I resisted the urge to reply "If anyone complains about my prices , I will send them to you."

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

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post #522 of 5317 Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Dry stack exhaust makes you sound like the African Queen. Hold on to yer Gin matey!
I run all mine out below the waterline, reducing the noise to a low gurgle.

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post #523 of 5317 Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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That's a hell of a good deal. She was well built and well epoxied inside and out. She has cruised extensively in the Carribean and on to the Galapagos. Adding a wheelhouse to her would not be all that difficult

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post #524 of 5317 Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
BS is missing in action. He probably can't stand it that this is the weekend of the Perry Rendezvous where 50 of my boats will gather for a big party. On the other hand maybe he's headed down here in his BS boat. I would really, truly like to meet him on the dock.
I can only dream.
Bob, I have no interest in setting foot in the US ( Prison land). I have a much better cruising ground, which I cruise freely, requiring permission from no one.

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post #525 of 5317 Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Issue for me is you finally got your act together and are out long term cruising. Do you want to spend that time being concerned about hull maintenance, electrolysis and rust? If you brought a used boat regardless of review of the scantlings and the above discussion with it's delightful math do you have any idea of what's under you after a few years? Either you put years of sweat equality or the fruits of years of grinding out that paycheck into your boat. What's that boat worth when you hang up your spurs? What kind of shape is it going to be in? What will it take to keep it in that shape?
Brent can say what he wants but believe when you fall off that wave at hull speed or better on to the corner of a semi submerged container you're going to get a hole. Unless it's forward of a watertight bulkhead or you're in an ETAP you're in big trouble. For me the lack of performance and the maintenance concerns make steel problematic. Modern coatings are great. I'm 3 slips down from a 62' crewed trawleryacht as I write this. Gorgeous design in steel. I'm sure it was flamed zinced and has unobtainium epoxy up the whazoo. Painted white and pristine until you get real close and see the rust streaks.
You are not going to fall off a wave faster than hitting a steel barge at 6 knots, which my boats have done with impunity. My boat is 29 years old with her original paint job , in excellent shape.
It takes a tiny amount of steel to make a rust streak, or a huge amount of rust. Seconds with muriatic acid eliminates them quickly.

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post #526 of 5317 Old 08-18-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Personal Attack removed per forum rules. Jeff_H SailNet moderator

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post #527 of 5317 Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Personal Attack removed per forum rules. Jeff_H SailNet moderator

This is one of Bob's Norseman 447's done in aluminum.



This is also a Bob Perry design in steel.


It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...

Last edited by Jeff_H; 08-19-2013 at 01:43 PM.
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post #528 of 5317 Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Your boats are freaking ugly, slow, unsafe floating turds.
Mark, normally I enjoy your posts, but this one has just harshed my morning mellow...
Brent's boats apparently do appeal to some people because he has sold quite a few of them, and collectively they have logged hundreds of thousands of miles in waters all over the world. I would not mind owning one of them as I do like bilge keel boats and steel. I have a lot of respect for Brent as a designer and sailor - compared to him, I know squat. Obviously Bob Perry is a legend, and I would not get in the middle of these two guys talking shop.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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post #529 of 5317 Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by krisscross View Post
Mark, normally I enjoy your posts, but this one has just harshed my morning mellow...
Brent's boats apparently do appeal to some people because he has sold quite a few of them, and collectively they have logged hundreds of thousands of miles in waters all over the world. I would not mind owning one of them as I do like bilge keel boats and steel. I have a lot of respect for Brent as a designer and sailor - compared to him, I know squat. Obviously Bob Perry is a legend, and I would not get in the middle of these two guys talking shop.
Generally I agree with you kc. I personally don't think Brent's boats are "pretty", but they are undoubtedly functional and relatively durable.

The only part of your statement that I would challenge is the bold part. I see very little that points to Brent as a "designer" in any context that would include Bob.

Brent is a builder. He has some very good, practical ideas on how to build stuff. But I don't think he is a "designer" any more than a carpenter is an architect. I think that is very evident in his arguments with Bob. Further, I think this "designer" moniker that Brent seems to want to assume is actually the source of a lot of the issues being argued. It just doesn't fit Brent, and it is an important distinction.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a good builder. But there's no reason to put a designer label where it's not appropriate.
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post #530 of 5317 Old 08-19-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Perhaps that is true and I stand corrected - I have not been following this discussion in every detail and I'm sure I missed stuff.
I thought Brent has not only been building these boats but also designing them. IMO if you build off someone else's plans, you are a builder, but if you design and build from scratch, you can claim to be a designer as well.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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