Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 6 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1721Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #51  
Old 11-30-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 181
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
BryceGTX is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaMC View Post
I guess I am not sure I get the point you are making above. Sounds like you are bragging up our aluminum boat industry (I agree) but then trashing the material at the same time (and the European boat industry to boot).

Steel as well, but the weight issue is real.
The point I am trying to make is that there is an incredible amount of experience with aluminum boat builders in the US. Invariable the reason for building aluminum boats is the weight issue rather than strength. As you (and I) pointed out.
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-30-2012 at 08:39 PM.
  #52  
Old 11-30-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 181
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
BryceGTX is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
and some more information about aluminum hulls, none of them regards the problems you mention (maybe you cab say what the marine credible source that sustain your negative opinion regarding aluminum boats):

yacht

Boatbuilding Materials - Articles - Benford Design Group

Aluminum For Boats

Advantages of an aluminum boat

Regards

Paulo
So you are trying to convince us by showing us alumimum boat manufacturers and owners? Your sources are biased..

So what does the US Government say about Alum boats?

"Aluminum weapons systems are in widespread use throughout all services of the military. Unfortunately, more and more failures of aluminum due to corrosion are being reported. "

Aluminum Equipment Failures in Coastal and Marine Environments

How about this 144 footer that failed in 1 month??

"Nichols discovered the cracks in the Jet Cat's hull after the boat's owner, Catalina Express, noticed the aluminum on the boat discoloring. Just a month after the 144-foot boat was launched by Nichols in April, the problem caught the attention of the company's engineers. Metallurgy tests showed that the aluminum was defoiling wherever it was in contact with salt water. Cracks near the Jet Cat's engine room were so large that water had begun to seep into the boat."

Cracks in aluminum boat's hull cause concern at Nichols - South Whidbey Record

Here is what the everyday guy says about alum boats:
"I have a crack in my boat. The boat is a flat bottom boat and the crack is where the side meets the bottom. I am sure that the crack can be welded no problems and stop the leak. I am drawing a blank on who to take it to to have it welded up tho. The crack is about 9 inches long"

Aluminum Boat Repair

Then there is this guy:
"The boat has been in use constantly, most likely with these welds cracked for many years"

Aluminum boat - Cracked welds - Page 1 - 367412

Here is another guy:
"What I found are 17- 2" welds over a 10ft. length from passenger console to bow broken. "

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/met...elds-7345.html

The Marinette Forum:

"Check the hull first before you decide to weld. Aluminum hull percussion sounding or ultra-sounding can cost $20.00 per foot to find flaws, ask a surveyor who knows this stuff.
If it feels deeply pitted, it's too far gone, see below. A small patch is usually just fine. "

http://www.marinetteboat.com/Metals.htm

Another discussion about older alum boats:
"Many times I have seen older riveted alum. boats crack along and near the rivets. I don't think that the crack can be repaired."

http://glen-l.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4672

This one even has pictures:
"Here are pics of the crack. If anyone can please share on any reinforcement tips and how anyone repaired a cracked aluminum transom. Thanks everyone."

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-reinforcement

Lets see what wikipedia has to say:
"One important structural limitation of aluminium alloys is their fatigue strength. Unlike steels, aluminium alloys have no well-defined fatigue limit, meaning that fatigue failure eventually occurs, under even very small cyclic loadings. This implies that engineers must assess these loads and design for a fixed life rather than an infinite life."


For every post you can find positive about aluminum boats, I can find a hundred that talk about fatigue cracks in any alum boat of every size imaginable. I am one of those guys with a 12 foot alum/glass fishing boats with fatigue cracks in the alum seats.

Now I can easily also go out and find glowing reports on wood, steel, fiberglass or concrete. But we can also point out the negative aspects of these materials.

I think my most fundamental point is, consider that every building material has some particular issue. Aluminum is no different. The way I see it.. the most attractive aspect of aluminum is its light weight.
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-30-2012 at 09:06 PM.
  #53  
Old 11-30-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
So you are trying to convince us by showing us alumimum boat manufacturers and owners? Your sources are biased..

So what does the US Government say about Alum boats?

"Aluminum weapons systems are in widespread use throughout all services of the military. Unfortunately, more and more failures of aluminum due to corrosion are being reported. "

Aluminum Equipment Failures in Coastal and Marine Environments

How about this 144 footer that failed in 1 month??

"Nichols discovered the cracks in the Jet Cat's hull after the boat's owner, Catalina Express, noticed the aluminum on the boat discoloring. Just a month after the 144-foot boat was launched by Nichols in April, the problem caught the attention of the company's engineers. Metallurgy tests showed that the aluminum was defoiling wherever it was in contact with salt water. Cracks near the Jet Cat's engine room were so large that water had begun to seep into the boat."

Cracks in aluminum boat's hull cause concern at Nichols - South Whidbey Record

.....
Bryce
Hummm, I get your point. It is because Aluminum is a shitty material for boat building that " 50% of boats in America are built from aluminum". It makes sense

The Advantages of Having an Aluminum Boat |

Regards

Paulo
  #54  
Old 11-30-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
The point I am trying to make is that there is an incredible amount of experience with aluminum boat builders in the US. Invariable the reason for building aluminum boats is the weight issue rather than strength. As you (and I) pointed out.
Bryce
Of curse, everybody knows that a sail boat should be as light as possible and as strong as possible. Light and strong is not an attribute that is good only on sailboats, many other type of boats have advantages to be light and strong and that's why so many boats are built in Aluminum in the US and everywhere.

I guess that everybody knows that weight for weight Aluminum is considerably stronger than steel.

Regards

Paulo
  #55  
Old 11-30-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 181
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
BryceGTX is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hummm, I get your point. It is because Aluminum is a shitty material for boat building that " 50% of boats in America are built from aluminum". It makes sense

The Advantages of Having an Aluminum Boat |

Regards

Paulo
No the boats are built of aluminum because the goal was to produce a light boat that could be trailered.
Bryce

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That does not make sense an aluminium boat is not lighter than a cored fiberglass boat and a fiberglass boat is less expensive.
You are kidding right?

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-30-2012 at 10:37 PM.
  #56  
Old 11-30-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
No the boats are built of aluminum because the goal was to produce a light boat that could be trailered.
Bryce
That does not make sense an aluminium boat is not lighter than a cored fiberglass boat and a fiberglass boat is less expensive.

They are made from aluminum because they are as lighter as cored fiberglass boats and stronger. Heavy duty fishing boats are the ones made with aluminum, many used professionally.

Regards

Paulo
  #57  
Old 11-30-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 181
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
BryceGTX is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
I always find it interesting that people raise concerns about the fatigue life of aluminium, but no one ever raises the issue with fiberglass. Given that fiberglass has the same fatigue problems as aluminium it seems more of a theoretical problem than an actual one, so long as the boat is properly designed in the first place.
There is a good reason people who know are concerned with fatigue life of aluminum.. because it is aluminums most critical issue. And it fatigue failures are thousands of well documented real-life fatigue cracks that show up in a multitude of aluminum products.

There is a simple solution.. subject your product to fatigue tests. That is what the airline manufacturers and auto manufacturers do.

On the other hand, the fatigue life of something like steel is so well defined that you can build a product, and predict its life with software on a computer.

The way I see fiberglass is that there is not such widespread fatigue failure in fiberglass based on experiences of people. Rather fiberglass failure seems most often due to core failure or impact damage. The study below suggests that fiberglass fatigue might be predicted using steel type predictions.

Although I am sure some structural test engineers would cringe at the test setup these guys used.. its an interesting read.

www.usna.edu/Users/naome/phmiller/fatigue.ppt

Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-30-2012 at 11:08 PM.
  #58  
Old 11-30-2012
AlaskaMC's Avatar
Frozen Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 562
Thanks: 25
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 5
AlaskaMC is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
The point I am trying to make is that there is an incredible amount of experience with aluminum boat builders in the US. Invariable the reason for building aluminum boats is the weight issue rather than strength. As you (and I) pointed out.
Bryce
Bryce,

Actually, that was not my point. Weight AND durability are the reasons aluminum boats are popular in Alaska. Jet boats going up stream in very rocky water, sometimes jumping beaver dams or skimming over shoals that are out of the water for example. And, offshore it is the same thing. Weight AND durability is the issue. These things take MAJOR beatings that a fiberglass boat would not even make it 100 yards from the launch.

Just don't want to be misquoted as I was pointing out that when you want durability and weight savings then aluminum is really one of the few choices.
  #59  
Old 12-01-2012
Tanley's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Tanley is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Captain Q, found this the other day. No affiliation but she looks to be well found.

Balance for sale

As an aside, are you sailing Cayuga lake now? Grew up in that area, beautiful part of the country.
  #60  
Old 12-02-2012
CaptainQuiet's Avatar
quiet is as quiet does
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
CaptainQuiet is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Tanley, Thanks for the link. That's a big one. Not sure what I would do with all that space. Any idea why they are selling?
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 3 Weeks Ago 05:08 PM
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 04-06-2012 12:45 AM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 08:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.