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  #611  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Classic performance sailboat. Stuart Knockabout. originally in wood, still being made in fiberglass. I may not know much about sailboats but I am learning.
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  #612  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Bob I think your still being an Aussie at heart explains everything. For BS everything you think or say is just upside down for him. Different perspective for him. Too bad as I still think it would be fun to know more about +/- of steel construction not just hear repetitive diatribe about origami. Spent last week ghosting in light air. My SA/disp is adequate so didn't have to run the iron genny that much. Admiral wanted to go slow and chill so set them and forget them. Still, wonder about issues in designing a moderate to heavy displacement vessel that retains the ability to perform in the light air all too common in August on the east coast while remaining able to tolerate the weight us cruisers carry along. My slip mate is in an IP. I weigh a bit less but loa the same. He seems to need to power most days. Admittedly, I'll tolerate 4-5kts sog as long as I don't hear an engine and he won't tolerate less then hull speed from what I see. Is just sail area? What makes for a slippery hull? Is it possible with origami? From what little I know that's the limiting factor in origami. You can't get fully developed shapes so other hulls be they in steel, glass, wire reinforced cement, what ever cannot be as "slippery" in an origami shaped hull. ?I s my thinking wrong in this?
Also note in past have had boats that perform better on one tack then the other. Assume they come out of the mold symmetrical. ?Why does that occur? Look at the bottoms-same number of thru hulls or other sources of drag on both sides, boat floats on it's lines. Don't get it. Doesn't happen in current boat. Read the Metal boat discussion about inability to control details of the folds in origami. Does something similar occur to GRP boats over time?
The greatest drag occurs in a hard chine hull when the water flows across the chine. That is most likely in the bow, where waves flow at a large variety of angles. Midships it mostly parallels the chines. Origami hulls eliminate the chine in the bow and stern, and one can easily radius the existing short chines amidships .As the angles the water flows across the midships chines are small, even a small radius will eliminate this drag. After that, it is just a matter of adequate sail area to displacement . It is not displacement in itself which kills light air performance, it's just the ratio of sail area to displacement.
Lack of winds are a big problem here in BC as well, where my boats are extremely popular. Not much wind gets past the big breakwater( Vancouver Island).
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  #613  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
If you grew up eating it you'd think it was mother's milk, like I do.
Bob , are you Aussie?
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  #614  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Actually, I've thought of a great use of unfinished BrentBoats:



Put some wheels on that sucker and turn it into a smoker!
You guys are coming up with all kinds of photos of Brentboats I've never seen. I guess there are far more of them that I realize.
Thanks !
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  #615  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
Brent,

You never commented on this: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat



And to keep slightly on topic for where this thread is currently headed
8. Marmite is preferable to Vegemite
9. Steel is a great material for BBQ's
GRP Is not cheaper for a new boat. You couldnt build a GRP hull for anwhere near as cheaply as a steel boat. The last quote we got for the steel for a 36 this past winter was $9K. How much fibreglassing materials can you get for that much money? Not enough to build a 36 ft hull and deck, by any stretch of the imagination. The odds of dying in a GRP boat aground in surf are far greater than in a steel boat and exponentially greater in a mid ocean collision in GRP compared to steel.
My boats have no problem pointing higher and sailing faster than many GRP cruising boats.
The Pardys told me they have weeks of hard work getting their wooden boats back together after every ocean crossing , while mine take only an hour or less.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 08-22-2013 at 04:30 PM.
  #616  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JomsViking View Post
Brent,

You never commented on this: Bob Perry's take on Wolfenzee's dream boat



And to keep slightly on topic for where this thread is currently headed
8. Marmite is preferable to Vegemite
9. Steel is a great material for BBQ's
GRP Is not cheaper for a new boat. You couldnt build a GRP hull for anwhere near as cheaply as a steel boat. The odds of dying in a GRP boat aground in surf are far greater than in a steel boat and exponentially greater in a mid ocean collision in GRP compared to steel.
My boats have no problem pointing higher and sailing faster than many GRP cruising boats.
The Pardys told me they have weeks of hard work getting their wooden boats back together after every ocean crossing , while mine take only an hour or less.
Testing to destruction proves that there are limits to the reliability of calculations.
The Kon Tiki was also made of wood, but I don't think you are crossing oceans in a sistership. The Fram was made of wood, but I don't see any icebreakers made of it. Had they had modern steel technology, she would have been made of steel.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 08-22-2013 at 04:32 PM.
  #617  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Light air performance is about wetted surface. You can find data on this in any book on yacht design. But you do have to read them.
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  #618  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
You guys are coming up with all kinds of photos of Brentboats I've never seen. I guess there are far more of them that I realize.
Thanks !
Yeah - it's just a bummer that many of them are unfinished and rusting away in backyards. What an environmental waste. Huge footprint.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-22-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Light air performance is about wetted surface. You can find data on this in any book on yacht design. But you do have to read them.
Bob,

We all really appreciate your patience and your help in learning so much about why boats perform as they do, and the things to consider when we are looking at a boat to purchase.

I just wanted to take a minute to seriously say "Thank You.". You spend time here that you do not have to, you put up with a lot of repeated questions, crazy ideas, and a pretty fair amount of general stupidity and ignorance, all while keeping a great and very helpful attitude. We really appreciate all you do to help us learn about boat design, building, and the reason why things are done the way they are done.

I read a lot of books and texts and articles because I enjoy it, but one of my favorite things to read is the commentary you give on design here on sailnet.

So thank you Bob, please know that we do appreciate what you do to help us learn.
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  #620  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
GRP Is not cheaper for a new boat. You couldnt build a GRP hull for anwhere near as cheaply as a steel boat. The odds of dying in a GRP boat aground in surf are far greater than in a steel boat and exponentially greater in a mid ocean collision in GRP compared to steel.
My boats have no problem pointing higher and sailing faster than many GRP boats.
The Pardys told me they have weeks of hard work getting their wooden boats back together after every ocean crossing , while mine take only an hour or less.
Okay - this one is a classic.
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