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  #71  
Old 07-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
With a skilled owner and good tools, I've put together a 36 ft hull in two days or tacked together the shell( Hull, decks, wheelhouse, cabin, cockpit keel and skeg ) in 6 days.

When the cost of steel to build a 36 was around $4K ,the cost of aluminium to build the same boat was around $20K, and aluminium welding equipment was far more expensive . You can only weld aluminium outside in a dead calm, in dry weather. Aluminium welds are only 60% the strength of the surrounding metal, whereas steel welds are 100% , demand far less skill, and are far harder to screw up on.

On my steel 31 footer, maintenance cost has averaged around 2 hours a year, and less than $50 a year.

It's not displacement alone which makes a boat too slow .It's the displacement to sail area . Heavier boat, more sail.
So now that I'm doing more research your boats Brent, and being repeatedly accused of saying stuff I never said, I'm beginning to wonder about most of your claims.

Here's what I mean. You talk about an entire boat exterior you can knock out in a week.

That's cool, but let's look at some facts...

Here's a very informative website about a guy building a 74 foot origami steeler named S/V Seeker, modeled after a 65-footer you helped put together (Paul L's boat which we'll get to in a minute):

http://www.submarineboat.com/sailboat.htm

Looks like the guy definitely has the right tools, and definitely knows his way around steel. And he sounds like a very nice, motivated, intelligent guy in the videos. So why has it taken him 5 years to get to this point?



And he says he still has another 3+ years to go. Sure, it's a bigger boat, but according to your timeframe above, and allowing for the bigger scale, shouldn't he have been at this point in 4-6 weeks?

8 YEARS before they can sail a single nautical mile??

Tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools and equipment and very evident experience - but he can't work the Swain magic? What is he doing wrong, Brent?

It's not like he and his wife didn't research. Like I said above, they visited this other guy's 65'er before getting started:



It was a boat that you apparently worked on too Brent...



I'm sure you helped them pull that whole thing together in a few days. But after several years more work, which, again, is mystifying according to your claimed timing for your boats, they're still not done!

What are they doing wrong, Brent? I don't get it.

Of course, I also see you talk about how owners absolutely love these oragami steel boats and how the value increases exponentially over time. It all sounds pretty incredible. So, they're obviously close enough to the big payoff of FINALLY getting out and fulfilling the dream of cheap cruising that you promised them in a boat that they love and that has tremendous value...



Ohhhh. That's unfortunate.

Well, at least when one of your clients DOES get it right and actually makes it out onto that beautiful ocean and into their cruising dreams, they can do it VERY cheaply due to the incredibly low maintenance of one of your boats - 2 hours and $50. Take "Nothin' Wong" for example. A fine yacht:



Well, okay, pretty rough around the edges.

What's funny, is the couple on that same site ACTUALLY SAILED on "Nothin' Wong". Here's their glowing review of that nicely maintained Brent Boat:

http://www.submarineboat.com/nuthin_wong.htm

Ouch. We'll I suppose I can see how one can actually get to 2 hours and $50 when foregoing plumbing and having the cockpit seats and a bucket serve as the head...



...or not worrying about a cracked mast...



...or using exposed bicycle chain and bungee cords as your steering system. It is all definitely inventive. And, I can definitely see how it's extremely easy on the cruising kitty.

Looks like the Skipper of the Wong is following your maintenance lead perfectly. Yes, once you get out there - it's all cheap and easy...

Quote:
Maintaining a 15m steel boat costs a lot of money which the contributions Clive asks to the travellers don't cover entirely.
Ohhh. Well, at least they have a great looking, great sailing yacht, right? Ahem.

Brent, this is all directly from the friends and acquaintances you like to quote so often. I don't understand. It's supposed to be much more magical than this, right?

Hmmmm.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 07-07-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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  #72  
Old 07-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Ouch!
My eyes are bleeding.
I think in this case a picture is better than all of Brent's words.
I stopped reading when I got ot the "finger and a bucket of water".
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Last edited by bobperry; 07-07-2013 at 12:44 AM.
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  #73  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Ouch!
My eyes are bleeding.
I think in this case a picture is better than all of Brent's words.
I stopped reading when I got ot the "finger and a bucket of water".
Here you go Bob. This should help:

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Here you go Bob. This should help:


"I reckon Winston's 15 days from BC tro Hawaiii is reasonable for a heavily loaded 36, as is Andy's 14 days. When Pearl Song left Cabo, she covered 1106 miles in 6 days hard on the wind, then broke the top 1/3rd of his wooden mast off, and still beat a gazelle to Hawai under jury rig,which had left the same time as him. When Quadra Island barber Mike Louckes cruised in company with a benteau, he was always arriving long before the benny, despite being very heavily loaded. When the first 2 -36 foters I built went out on race day in San diego, they left some of the race boats far behind, despite being heavily loaded. You could tell which was the skipper . He was the only one without a smirk on his face.
Again Bob . Could you tell us of all the offshore cruising you had done before calling yourself a designer? We are still waiting.
Could you tell us why, with so many super cheap and sound fg sailboats on the market, and even being given away, why someone would pay you decades worth of cruising funds, just to to draw pictures of one?"

And ya better get a pair of these

'cause it just keeps getting deeper
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  #75  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"When the first 2 -36 foters I built went out on race day in San diego, they left some of the race boats far behind,"

This is a total crock! You are delusional. Unless you mean your boats beat a few Sabots and Lido 14's. That I would accept. My FT10m would literally sail circles around any of your boats effortlessly. What proof can you offer for your claim? Race results?

Do you think the rest of us know nothing about the capabilities of modern racing yachts? You truly must think us stupid. But I think we have that well established.
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  #76  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Maybe the race boats had there storm sails up as practice or requirement for the first 10 miles, after than they blew by them!

Saw an older full keel gaff schooner trying to sail thru cattle pass yesterday. he got thru, but with no wind, and a 3 knot current pushing him. After that, pretty slow looking vs a more modern sloop sailing in 8-10 knots of breeze across the straight. Not sure what the final distance difference was, as I went west to deception pass.

Probably an hr or two or three in 20 miles!

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Cruisers like Nothing Wong are the ones giving us (other cruisers) a bad name around the World. Have met the type myself and they constantly scrounged tools, help, meals etc. - Even though I obviously were living on a shoestring myself, that type never returned the favor, nor the tools.

Brent is clearly delusional, saying the 2 hours and 50 bucks a year can keep a steel boat in good nick - unless he's an idle thieving bast... similar to the type discussed above.
Remember Brent, I've worked on a steel fisherman - when we were not fishing we were forever cleaning, sanding, and painting - Admitting that they probably had a rougher life than most, it is still applicable to cruisers.

Guess your answer will be that they were not put together in 2 days using origami karate man of steel methods thus were inferior quality and that we were stupid to trust our lives to the skipper and boat.

Luckily - I guess - the insane ramblings of Mr. Swain has put more people of his boats, unluckily it may impact well built steel boats as well.

/Joms
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Joms:
Remember Brent thinks we believe:
"When the first 2 -36 foters I built went out on race day in San diego, they left some of the race boats far behind,"

So, if he think we belive that then we should belive you can maintain your steel boat for 2 hours and $50 a year. Hold on,,,is that $50 Canadian? $50 a year wouldn't maintain my own 26'er. I needed at least $53.

In short, his claim is another absurd lie.
Reminds me of that old R&B tune, I PITY THE FOOL.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

At the same time, disregarding the inswain ramblings, I actually like these S/V Seeker folks a lot:

http://www.submarineboat.com/sailboat.htm

I've watched several of the videos regarding their build. They're doing it - when it obviously ain't easy. I definitely respect that.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smackers:
Those are fun videos to watch. I admire the guy.
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