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  #821  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smacks:
Thanks for posting the pics of Brent's boat. I think the photos clearly show why I will never compete for that market. It's just not the kind of boat I have any interest in at all.
Brent seems to have a really good handle on this market.

Do they make deck shoes with steel toes?
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  #822  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
No worries, Swaindaddy. Actually, I think what this shows more than anything is your definition of "perfection". It's much, much narrower than the typical interpretation of what most would even remotely consider "perfect". So this was a very good exercise. Now the 99%-er can have a clear illustration of what you mean by "the perfect yacht": a floating tractor.

How about some more photos of your boat so we can see more perfection?



Just to be clear, I only ridicule and obstruct disingenuous knuckleheads. And I have unlimited funds to do so.
A friend sailed to New Zealand and back, with stock "yachty" style blocks. They had black anodized aluminium cheeks with stainless straps over them. The corrosion between the SS and the aluminium swelled the cheeks tight against the sheaves, causing them to freeze solid, in such a brief, one year trip. That is the kind of perfectionism Smack advocates. As long as it has a brand name on it, it must be perfect. My blocks have had no problems in decades . That is my definition of perfection, not decorative priorities over reliability. I still see those failed blocks for sale in yachty stores ,for high prices, for those "knuckleheads "gullible enough to judge marine hardware by the price tag and it's decorativeness. I see some lewmar blocks with 1/4 inch stainless shackles with 1/4 inch pins, and flimsy plastic cheeks , for $40 each.
How does the high price tag and brand name make plastic and tiny shackles stronger than the amount of metal holding my blocks together? How dose the tiny amount of stainless around the shackle pin get strengthened to more than the amount of aluminium in the beckets on my blocks, by adding a brand name and high price tag? They give the safe working load at 900 lbs, a fraction the strength of the half inch line going over it. I believe all blocks, cleats and mooring bitts should be stronger than the biggest line that will be used on them. That is simply good seamanship ( unlike what Smack advocates|)
You can easily make a strength comparision between my blocks and commercially made blocks . Just tie a loop of rope around a tree and the other end to the becket of one. Then tie another loop of half inch Dacron around the two blocks and tie the other becket to the back bumper of a car, with lots of slack . Then get in the car and put the pedal to the metal, and see which one breaks first. If your theory holds, then you believe that mine will break first, and you will be out 20 minutes and $2. So why don't you try it? Because you know full well that your commercially made block wont stand a hope in hell!
What is your theory on that? Or do you simply believe that mother nature is kinder, and more gentle, to materials which look like something out of a blister pack from a yachty store?
Didn't know mother nature was that consumer biased .
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-02-2013 at 05:03 PM.
  #823  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Yeah, that's the ticket. I'll spec a few of Swain Blocks on Kim's boat. I'll surprise him. He's going to be soooooo happy when he sees them.

Brent: I'm not sure why you take so much trouble to tell us your blocks are strong. I don't think any of us doubt they are strong. They look strong. But they don't look like they would belong on one of my designs. For all their stregth they look a bit crude to my eye. But that's probably just me. I'm sure they look fine on your boat.

"those knuckleheads gullible enough "
See, there you go again, You insist on calling people insulting names if they don't do things your way. Can't you be a bit tolerant of the fact that not everyone shares the same aesthetic benchmarks as you do? You'd better get used to it or you'll just keep getting angrier and angrier and your hair will fall out and your dog will bite you.
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Last edited by bobperry; 09-02-2013 at 04:49 PM.
  #824  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I would suggest the same applies to builders. If a person wants to go cruising but has limited time & money, their best course of action by far is to buy an existing boat and prep it to suit.

No-one can build a boat remotely as cheaply as something similar can be bought used.

I speak from experience.
You are absolutely right, plastic boats are much cheaper, if you are content to have nothing but apiece of plastic between you and any dangerous floating debris out there, nothing but a piece of plastic between you and sudden death for you and your crew( bad seamanship) Or if you are content with the leaky dampness of living under a plastic deck , and having to rebed your deck gear and chase down leaks frequently. Most of my clients have done that, and consider it worth the time, money and effort to solve the problem permanently, with a steel boat. Before Silas Crosby, Steve had a Spencer 35, which he sailed to New Zealand and back to BC. He flew home and began Silas Crosby when he reached Hawaii in his plastic boat.
Any steel boat designer can do a lot to reduce the time and money required , for anyone who doesn't want to risk his life, and that of his crew, in fragile plastic , and wishes to enjoy the hugely enhanced comfort and safety of a steel boat, by simply using my methods. I don't exactly keep them a dark trade secret. There is very little choice around here in used boats, for anyone wanting a good, affordable steel boat. Mine are usually the only show in town
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-02-2013 at 04:54 PM.
  #825  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Yeah, that's the ticket. I'll spec a few of Swain Blocks on Kim's boat. I'll surprise him. He's going to be soooooo happy when he sees them.

Brent: I'm not sure why you take so much trouble to tell us your blocks are strong. I don't think any of us doubt they are strong. They look strong. But they don't look like they would belong on one of my designs. For all their stregth they look a bit crude to my eye. But that's probably just me. I'm sure they look fine on your boat.

"those knuckleheads gullible enough "
See, there you go again, You insist on calling people insulting names if they don't do things your way. Can't you be a bit tolerant of the fact that not everyone shares the same aesthetic benchmarks as you do? You'd better get used to it or you'll just keep getting angrier and angrier and your hair will fall out and your dog will bite you.
Saw very similar blocks to mine on the Americas cup contender "Dame Pattie"
The only difference was they were bigger and had holes in the cheeks.
One could make exact copies in minutes for less than $10.
I bet they didn't cost that little . It takes a bigger price tag to convince people of their value. In the consumer religion, that takes priority over logic.
Numbers, over logic, sells!

Sorry for the typo. I went back and put quotation marks around" Knuckelheads" to show it was a quotation of Smack's rebuttal of my logic.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-02-2013 at 05:06 PM.
  #826  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Gloom and doom Swain. Like an angry guy on a soap box in the park.
"Repent you sinners!"

"The only difference was they were bigger and had holes in the cheeks. "
You are so funny Brent. It scares me that you actually believe your own BS.


The VOR is starting again. Probably has already started. Those are amazing "fragile plasic" boats.
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  #827  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
A friend sailed to New Zealand and back, with stock "yachty" style blocks. They had black anodized aluminium cheeks with stainless straps over them. The corrosion between the SS and the aluminium swelled the cheeks tight against the sheaves, causing them to freeze solid, in such a brief, one year trip. That is the kind of perfectionism Smack advocates. As long as it has a brand name on it, it must be perfect. My blocks have had no problems in decades . That is my definition of perfection, not decorative priorities over reliability. I still see those failed blocks for sale in yachty stores ,for high prices, for those knuckleheads gullible enough to judge marine hardware by the price tag and it's decorativeness. I see some lewmar blocks with 1/4 inch stainless shackles with 1/4 inch pins, and flimsy plastic cheeks , for $40 each.
How does the high price tag and brand name make plastic and tiny shackles stronger than the amount of metal holding my blocks together? How dose the tiny amount of stainless around the shackle pin get strengthened to more than the amount of aluminium in the beckets on my blocks, by adding a brand name and high price tag? They give the safe working load at 900 lbs, a fraction the strength of the half inch line going over it. I believe all blocks, cleats and mooring bitts should be stronger than the biggest line that will be used on them. That is simply good seamanship ( unlike what Smack advocates|)
You can easily make a strength comparision between my blocks and commercially made blocks . Just tie a loop of rope around a tree and the other end to the becket of one. Then tie another loop of half inch Dacron around the two blocks and tie the other becket to the back bumper of a car, with lots of slack . Then get in the car and put the pedal to the metal, and see which one breaks first. If your theory holds, then you believe that mine will break first, and you will be out 20 minutes and $2. So why don't you try it? Because you know full well that your commercially made block wont stand a hope in hell!
What is your theory on that? Or do you simply believe that mother nature is kinder, and more gentle, to materials which look like something out of a blister pack from a yachty store?
Didn't know mother nature was that consumer biased .
You sure do like putting words in people's mouth bro. I didn't say a brand name was necessary. I didn't say your block would break first. And I didn't say that aesthetics should trump functionality. But I will say this, the "$2/20-minute" mantra is complete crap for anyone in the real world (e.g. - not on the BrentBoat).

At the end of the day, your blocks are metal and plastic...just like the ones you think are "yachtie". Are they "stronger and more durable"? Probably...just in the same way these are stronger and more durable than yours:



Same tree, same car, yours definitely break before these. Every single time. So why not use these on your boat? At some point...strength and durability are not the main point.

I do agree with you that much of this hardware is way overpriced. And I really like the ingenuity that has gone into your blocks above. But yours ARE NOT "better" all-round than those from the major manufacturers...which can also last decades if taken care of (I have many such pieces of gear on my boats).

Compared to these main-stream products, your blocks are definitely cheaper, similarly functional, but way more bulky, way heavier, and far uglier. Again, nothing wrong with that if the tractoresque motif is what you're after. That's not what most sailors are after however.

Homemade blocks could be done a lot better than the ones you've shown if you ask me...if one cared about "perfection"...and still be reasonably cheap and nice looking. Do you think you could make one that looks as nice this 3/4" Garhauer that's about 8" long, weighs almost 2 pounds, runs $98, has a SWL of 5K?



What would that cost to build for the typical homemaker?
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 09-02-2013 at 05:18 PM.
  #828  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob
I spend as much time as I please, in a place where the consumer religious rich work all year to spend three weeks in. Then they all go home, to earn the money needed, to make payments on the kind of boats and gear you advocate, while I continue to cruise, enjoying all the now empty anchorages they have abandoned, to follow your advice. Been doing this since my mid 20's. Just spent the summer swimming, sailing in some good winds, fishing , eating ice cream and chicken burgers venison steak, wild plums and blackberries etc. etc., and sailing with some beautiful charming and intelligent young ladies, who keep coming back, year after year. Have nothing else on the agenda for the foreseeable future. Never had a bank debt . Never paid a penny of bank interest directly, in my life. I travel first class on space ship earth, in the best place on the planet, in the best time in human history. So don't get too concerned for my happiness. I wouldn't change places with anyone else on the planet; I envy no one!
I do like to steer others toward the lifestyle I enjoy, and warn them about scammers trying to convince them that the pretentious "Yachty" ways, which keeps so many in debt, and tied to the dock , are their only option. I just have a low ," Just throw money at it " Bull****t threshold.
This is not grumpy, just a form of chess.
Checkmate!
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-03-2013 at 06:32 PM.
  #829  
Old 09-02-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Now that Garhauer is a very nice lookig block. I'd like to see it on one of my boats.

Those wooden blocks look very strong. I saw some exactly like that on the ORACLE AC cat except they had holes in the cheeks.
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  #830  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent I have zero concern for your happiness. Couldn't care a less. I just can't understand how someone so "happy" can be so angry and defensive on this site. You own your own words. You are in the perpetual attack mode.

I take a live and let live attitude. My world has room for all sorts of boats. I just like boats. Your attitude seems to be "sail my way or you are an idiot". I can't count the times you have said things to that effect here.
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