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  #891  
Old 09-05-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimbottles View Post
...
I have also spent quite a bit of time on both sail and power boats (as skipper and crew and passenger). I never did understand why there has to be any competition between them. I own both power and sail boats and plan to continue to do so.

..
Kim Bottles
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(8/2)
Yes, that is strange because I swear that most of the sailboats I saw in Greece are used like motorboats. In weak wind probably because the boat will not make 7K, in strong wind (15K)...because the wind is too strong.

Believe me I am being ironic but at least here, that's what happens. That is more usual with charters (most of the boats around) and even more with charter cats.

Regards

Paulo
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  #892  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
I know this has been touched on before in this thread, but the great irony here is still that the cost conscious, go small go now, cruiser that Brent appears to be the self appointed poster child for is far likelier to be sailing the oceans in a Perry designed Valiant 40, Tayana 37 or Passport 40 than in a Brentboat.

Yacht design is Bob Perry's profession, he has no obligation or duty to help me, you or anyone else go cruising, he is not compelled at this stage of his career to donate his services to the needy cruisers of the world. He is a designer of yachts who wishes to excel in his craft. No one would criticise an experienced doctor at the pointy end of his profession from working in a leading facility because he wished to be at the forefront of medicine, likewise any criticism of Bob's work is just 'tall poppy syndrome' base level envy and nothing more.

I find nothing wrong with Brent's boats, I have no issue with his approach to life and cruising, I however find everything wrong with the crap he has spun in this thread.
For stock plastic boats, there is no doubt that Bob is one of the best plastic boat designers on the planet. If you are looking for a plastic boat, then a Perry design would be one if the better choices. You would only have to put proper lifelines on, a proper wheelhouse and inside steering, and proper aluminium hatches, and you would have one of the best plastic boats anywhere ( and a far better looking boat than most new designs )
But you would still have a plastic boat, with a fraction the odds of surviving a collision with a container, a fire aboard , thieves, etc . For a new boat, you would have to give up decades of cruising to pay for her. and end up with a boat so marginally faster, you would never sail far enough to make up for the time you spent paying for her.
This discussion is about pros and cons of steel. Plastic has it's pros and cons, as does steel. For the use most plastic boats are mainly built for ,marina queens, which are rarely used for anything but weekend cruising, and three weeks in summer, plastic boats are ideal .For full time cruising , boats get the same rough treatment as commercial boats, and should be built as tough and maintenance free. Boats which look very Yachty leaving this side of the Pacific , look rough as hell after crossing it. Boats which were plain Jane and easy to maintain, with commercial boat priorities leaving here, look unchanged , and quite immaculate ,by the time they have crossed the Pacific. Its just that much easier to keep them that way . Cleats don't pull out , no varnish to fall off, furlers don't break, anchor winches don't freeze up, blocks don't break or pull out, decks don't leak, etc. etc.
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  #893  
Old 09-05-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent- Been lurking on this thread for a while, its been...entertaining. Anyway, serious question: have any of your boats been rated for PHRF? I'm just curious as to how their ratings compare to similar boats in other materials. Not a perfect system, but I find the numbers useful when looking at different boats. I know that your boats are not built to be racers, but neither are Westsail 32's, Cape Dory Typhoons, or Flickas. Just curious! Thanks!
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  #894  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
...
But you would still have a plastic boat, with a fraction the odds of surviving a collision with a container, a fire aboard , thieves, etc . For a new boat, you would have to give up decades of cruising to pay for her. and end up with a boat so marginally faster, you would never sail far enough to make up for the time you spent paying for her.

This discussion is about pros and cons of steel. Plastic has it's pros and cons, as does steel.

For the use most plastic boats are mainly built for ,marina queens, which are rarely used for anything but weekend cruising, and three weeks in summer, plastic boats are ideal .For full time cruising , boats get the same rough treatment as commercial boats, and should be built as tough and maintenance free. Boats which look very Yachty leaving this side of the Pacific , look rough as hell after crossing it....
True, this thread is about Pros and cons of steel boats but even if the original poster refereed a voyage boat the scope of this thread is much more broad and refers to all types of sailboats.

As you have refereed with disdain (and I don't know why) most cruisers use the boats at week ends and on one month of vacations. I agree when you say that probably the best option is fiberglass or epoxy (even if there are more options). That's why most of the sailboats are fiberglass.

Some others beside cruising on their month of vacations use the boat for club or even top racing. Again fiberglass, epoxy and carbon come as the main choices.

The ones that have the time (retired or rich) and want to voyage extensively are a very small minority and even among these most of them only want to voyage in warm climates in the summer were a wheel house serves no real purpose.

You seem to consider that the ones that want a boat for hard sailing capable of sailing in high latitudes and with low maintenance have a kind of superiority over other sailors that prefer to enjoy sailing in a different way and that reflects in the depreciate tone that you use regarding the boats more fit for other kinds of sailing.

Even in what regards voyaging, and considering cars, it is like if you saw as the only appropriated vehicle a very simple slow and inexpensive 4x4, easy to maintain and able to go everywhere (for instance a Lada Niva). I don't want to go everywhere but I like to have fun driving and I like to voyage fast and a lot. I want a Porsche or a Maserati not a very strong low maintenance slow kind of vehicle. I will need more maintenance, I will burn more fuel but if I want the money for it, what is the problem? That's what I like, that is what I want.

It seems to me that you are so focused in your way that you are not able to understand the needs and desires of other sailors.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 09-05-2013 at 05:02 PM.
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  #895  
Old 09-05-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent:
Thanks for that. Coming from you I appreciate it.

If I ever have a client interested in home building a steel boat your name will be the first one I mention. You have proven you can make it work. I defer to your experience in that area.
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  #896  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
For stock plastic boats, there is no doubt that Bob is one of the best plastic boat designers on the planet. If you are looking for a plastic boat, then a Perry design would be one if the better choices. You would only have to put proper lifelines on, a proper wheelhouse and inside steering, and proper aluminium hatches, and you would have one of the best plastic boats anywhere ( and a far better looking boat than most new designs )
But you would still have a plastic boat, with a fraction the odds of surviving a collision with a container, a fire aboard , thieves, etc . For a new boat, you would have to give up decades of cruising to pay for her. and end up with a boat so marginally faster, you would never sail far enough to make up for the time you spent paying for her.
This discussion is about pros and cons of steel. Plastic has it's pros and cons, as does steel. For the use most plastic boats are mainly built for ,marina queens, which are rarely used for anything but weekend cruising, and three weeks in summer, plastic boats are ideal .For full time cruising , boats get the same rough treatment as commercial boats, and should be built as tough and maintenance free. Boats which look very Yachty leaving this side of the Pacific , look rough as hell after crossing it. Boats which were plain Jane and easy to maintain, with commercial boat priorities leaving here, look unchanged , and quite immaculate ,by the time they have crossed the Pacific. Its just that much easier to keep them that way . Cleats don't pull out , no varnish to fall off, furlers don't break, anchor winches don't freeze up, blocks don't break or pull out, decks don't leak, etc. etc.
I don't disagree with a lot of that. I have only disagreed with some of the more ridiculous assertions you have previously made.

This thread stopped being about the pros and cons of steel along time ago. Steel as a material clearly has some advantages, yet to suggest anyone crossing the Pacific in a plastic boat is doomed is taking things a bit far.

I like steel boats, I may of bought a steel cruising yacht if there was one suitable in my price range at the time. The good ones were too expensive, the cheap ones too badly built.
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Last edited by chall03; 09-05-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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  #897  
Old 09-05-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Challo:
I don't think Brent knows any better. I have lots of owners of my boats that have taken their boats all over the world and many have done circumnavigations. They have lived/survived to tell the stories. Brent just doesn't know. He is not well informed. Maybe he doesn't get out much. That's probably one reason he calls fiberglass boats "plastic" boats. He likes pergorative labels. They are easier than actually thinking.

Saturday night is my debut in a new local band. Larry the guitar player is a friend of mine. He cruised his Paasport 40 for the last three years. He took it from the PNW through the Pacific and through the canal up to Chesapeake Bay. He'll probably sell the boat now and settle down again near me in the PNW. That's good news for me. I now get to play in Larry's band. Brent has no idea that there are a lot of people doing this in my boats. As George O'Day once said after his big cruise, "There are more people doing offshore cruising in Tayana 37's than any other boat." Brent doesn't know. He chooses not to know. I call it "selective ignorance".

Brent lives in the gloom and doom world of "if you don't do it my way you will die". That has to be a really fun place to live. He is a very narrow minded person who sees what he wants to see and judges others if they don;t see it the same way, note his contant name calling of people with alternative perspectives. But you have to hand it to him, he at least pretends he likes what he sees.

For my money he works way too hard to convince people how happy he is and how content with his life he is while projecting a very angry and malcontent persona here. I would like Brent to understand that there are lots of different ways to go cruising. His way is one way and it is certainly not for everyone. But it is for some and that should be good enough. But I don't think he'll ever get it. We just have to get used to him the way he is. I can do it. I think. It would help if he'd stop telling whoppers to prove his point. But even there, we are pretty used to that. We can handle it. He's fun to have around.

Go figure.
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Last edited by bobperry; 09-05-2013 at 08:52 PM.
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  #898  
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

"Boats which look very Yachty leaving this side of the Pacific , look rough as hell after "crossing it. " Brent Swain.

This is another BS classic line. Fact is that my boats look better after crossing an ocean than Brent's do at launch. There must be acceptions but generally speaking and I assure you that this thread is chock a block full of "generally speaking", my boats do not look like Brent's at launch or after crossing an ocean. They never look that bad. Clearly BS and I share very divergent views on aesthetics.

Here are a few of my cruising beauties looking just lovely. I have more. Maybe Brent can match these four pics with four boats from his drawing board.
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Pros and cons of steel sailboats-altairx3.jpg   Pros and cons of steel sailboats-baba-40-reaching-pic.jpg   Pros and cons of steel sailboats-ba30-scotland1.jpg   Pros and cons of steel sailboats-littlewing2.jpg   Pros and cons of steel sailboats-lafitte-oria-port-bow-2.jpg  

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Hi - Wild Horses here. We were indeed at Jedediah at about that time, and anchored/stern tied in Deep Bay for lunch and a swim before heading out. We'd been in White Rock Bay the previous couple of nights. No grounding, no touching, no bumping. No nothing but fun. Sorry to cause such a stir!
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

But, but, but,,,,,I read it on the internet!

Oh, yeah, I forgot:
Welcome WILD HORSES to SN. What a beautiful boat you have.
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