Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 91 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1722Likes
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #901  
Old 09-06-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,511
Thanks: 96
Thanked 97 Times in 91 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Heh-heh. I love this place.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Quick reply to this message
  #902  
Old 09-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 32
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent- I hope to be voyaging soon. Seriously looked at wood/epoxy,Fe,Al,grp,and exotics. Took years of research before making final decision. Listened to others experiences and chatted up as many people as I could. Knew I wasn't going to do high latitude sailing (would choose Al in that case). Issue you face is until you accept the performance penalty your designs impose and speak honestly about this you will continue to have a limited audience. Please post PHRF or sailing polars or attested ships logs or something so folks can make informed decisions. I believe below approximately 50ft. the penalty is too high for steel. above that very reasonable performance can be achieved. Paulo has stated he thinks I pay too high a penalty given I opted for a solid glass hull. I'm very happy with my decision. Some folks may be very happy in steel below 50 ft. but please generate some facts so they can make an informed decision.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Quick reply to this message
  #903  
Old 09-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,800
Thanks: 32
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

P.s. ? Do your boats have stand pipes? Sea chests ? Is the infill all non flammable? Brent a fire on a boat is everyone's worse nightmare. Even those in steel. Marelon melts.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Quick reply to this message
  #904  
Old 09-06-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,148
Thanks: 83
Thanked 233 Times in 225 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHorses View Post
Hi - Wild Horses here. We were indeed at Jedediah at about that time, and anchored/stern tied in Deep Bay for lunch and a swim before heading out. We'd been in White Rock Bay the previous couple of nights. No grounding, no touching, no bumping. No nothing but fun. Sorry to cause such a stir!
Very glad to hear it.. the apologies are mine...

And welcome to SN.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Quick reply to this message
  #905  
Old 09-06-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
Thanks: 1
Thanked 80 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Faster:
I'm glad I have someone up in BC checking on my boats. You are now officially on the payroll.

Pay is low. Dinner and fine drinks at my shack will be your reward when you get down here. I hope to see you soon.
Faster likes this.
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quick reply to this message
  #906  
Old 09-06-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 583
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
NCC320 is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent,

Just curious about the Origami method. What exactly is the advantage of that method over first building a "frame" with ribs and stringers, and then applying the outer metal plating on that frame? I ask that question because I watched a series of videos of a couple building a large Origami style boat. It definitely wasn't easy and they struggled to get large plates (i.e. each side of boat) bent and twisted into the correct shape. Working with such large plates is hard and really dangerous without special rigging and know how. Basically, you are trying to force two plates (each side) to take the same shape (opposite hand of course) by applying pushing/pulling forces at various points. To my inexperienced (never done it, don't ever intend to do it) eye, this is a lot more difficult than working first with building a frame to dictate the hull shape and curves, and then applying/welding smaller pieces of plating to get the final hull. Those smaller pieces would seem to be easier to work with for a novice or person with limited tools/facilities, as opposed to welding up two large plates (sides) and then trying to bend and twist them into place.
bobperry likes this.
Quick reply to this message
  #907  
Old 09-06-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
Thanks: 1
Thanked 80 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

320:

I have been wondering the same thing for some time. I don't like the idea that I have minimal control of the shape in the ends of the boat. I would be concerned that the boat was symetyrical. I like working with frames so I can be certain the shape achieved is the shape I want and not a product of a geometric method.

Another question for Brent:
Is there a size where the origami method becomes impractical?
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quick reply to this message
  #908  
Old 09-06-2013
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,278
Thanks: 1
Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 7
tommays will become famous soon enough
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats







While this origami thing may be unique in sailboats ?

Anybody who forms sheet-metal or even REALLY THICK METAL knows how to layout most any complex shape in a lay-flat so it can be cut and formed efficiently
Brent Swain likes this.
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quick reply to this message
  #909  
Old 09-06-2013
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,373
Thanks: 19
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Brent- I hope to be voyaging soon. Seriously looked at wood/epoxy,Fe,Al,grp,and exotics. Took years of research before making final decision. Listened to others experiences and chatted up as many people as I could. Knew I wasn't going to do high latitude sailing (would choose Al in that case). Issue you face is until you accept the performance penalty your designs impose and speak honestly about this you will continue to have a limited audience. Please post PHRF or sailing polars or attested ships logs or something so folks can make informed decisions. I believe below approximately 50ft. the penalty is too high for steel. above that very reasonable performance can be achieved. Paulo has stated he thinks I pay too high a penalty given I opted for a solid glass hull. I'm very happy with my decision. Some folks may be very happy in steel below 50 ft. but please generate some facts so they can make an informed decision.
Do a search under Silas Crosby the first brentboat to round Cape Horn, now cruising SE Alaska. He gives his passage times, which are about average for most plastic cruising boats in the 36 ft size range. Paul Wilson gives his brentboat speeds on the origamiboats site. There he mentions a Bruce Bingham designed Fantasia leaving Fanning four days before him. Paul said he quickly caught up with and passed the Fantasia. Read Moitessier's book "The Long Way " which blows the myth that a 40 ft steel boat is slow. There are many small steel cruisers out cruising, down to 30 feet or less, which make the same passage times as most plastic boats in that size range. You will mete a lot of them when you head out cruising. Ask them about their passage times. Most wouldn't want to be in anything but steel . Few would change to plastic. The huge weight of gear and personal effects most cruisers take, makes the hull material weight irrelevant. There are plenty of plastic boats in the same weight range, or much heavier than my boats. ( Westsails ,Aleuelas, Ingrids, Hereshcoffs, Cape George cutters, etc., etc.)
The myth that steel is impractical for boats under 50 feet is entirely made up by those trying to sell you plastic. Everyone doing a good passage time in a steel boat under 50 feet, puts a lie to this myth, every time they do.
You may eventually want a steel boat. According to Jimmy Cornell's book "Modern Ocean Cruising" most do, once they get a bit more long term ocean cruising experience.
Quick reply to this message
  #910  
Old 09-06-2013
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 2,373
Thanks: 19
Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Brent Swain is on a distinguished road
Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post






While this origami thing may be unique in sailboats ?

Anybody who forms sheet-metal or even REALLY THICK METAL knows how to layout most any complex shape in a lay-flat so it can be cut and formed efficiently
Origami has been standard sheet metal technique for as long as sheet material has been around. Women say 'Exactly like dress making. ' Absolutely!
The problem was, when they started making boats out of steel, they didn't ask the sheet metal workers , who understood the material, they asked the wooden boat builders, who were only used to a material which only had strength in one direction, along the grain ! So, instead of design which took advantage of the omnidirectional strength of steel, and the sizes and shapes available, we got imitation wooden boat building, designed for a material which was only available in planks. This mistake was cast in the dogma of traditionalism for far too long. Origami boat building is one of the first breaks out of this traditionalist dogma, along with Van de Stadts methods.
Quick reply to this message
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 06:08 PM
C & C 24 pros and cons chuckg Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 04-06-2012 01:45 AM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 06:17 PM
Watermakers—Pros and Cons Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 06-11-2002 09:00 PM
Steel Hulls—Pros and Cons Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 09-12-2001 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.