Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 93 - SailNet Community
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post #921 of 5317 Old 09-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Here's a couple to get you started Brent.
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post #922 of 5317 Old 09-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I am presently sailing a " Tupperware Boat" ...Although the number of dead heads and low floaters has been reduced by bundle booms and self dumping barges they are probably more common then submergered containers...A steel boat or a good lookout is required in the PNW...
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post #923 of 5317 Old 09-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob142 View Post
......... a good lookout is required in the PNW...
THat is ALL one needs in the salish sea. "A good look out" If not, then if you hit a log at something over planing speeds, or say 15-20 knots in a power boat, or one of them Icon thing a ma bobs, then maybe a log will hole you! Then again, maybe not depending upon how you hit said log.........

Hitting a log is not something I worry about in my "plastic" boat! Heck, not too many folks are worried about hitting logs in there hypalon/grp bottom boats! so I need a steelie because why?

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post #924 of 5317 Old 09-06-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I've hit a few logs over the years. Hard enough to get your attention. I have hit rocks even harder, much harder. I have pretty much always been sailing grp boats. I have never had a log put a hole in the boat or stop the day's fun. Just a bump in the night and then on with the fun.

Brent seems to live in a dangerous world where the elements are all conspiring to to attack his boats. Cosmic karma?

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post #925 of 5317 Old 09-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Here's a couple to get you started Brent.
Nice lines! You definitely have a good set of eyes for shape, the best in the business.The first one looks like better hull balance than the second one. Don't have much faith in fig leaf rudders tho. Raking them aft reduces their efficiency , style over substance.
No, I don't give my designs away for free. I haven't been charging the exorbitant rates you charge, to enable me to afford to do that, at this point in time.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-07-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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post #926 of 5317 Old 09-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Brent:
Are you sure you want to talk about yacht quality "fair"?
This is fair. I have never seen anything from you that looks remotely fair by this standard.

Maybe you don't have the eye to judge "fair".
Kind of fair is not fair.
Amazing what a drum of bondo will do! I knew of a very fair round bilged Brewer design which used two 45 gallon drums of filler
You can read any British magazine and they refer to all fibreglass boats as GRP, which means "Glass Reinforced "PLASTIC". What part of "Plastic" do you not understand?
When the strength of my boats was questioned, I mentioned what some have survived, such as 16 days pounding on a west coast Baja lee shore in 8 to 12 ft surf for 16 days , pounding across 300 yards of Fijian coral reef, in big surf, then being dragged back over it by a tug, undamaged, a collision with a freighter, again undamaged,( as documented in "around the World on Viski") then a single season trip thru the NW passage ( as documented in "The NW Passage on Ten Dollars a Day " By George Hone and" Arctic Odysey",by Len Sherman) again undamaged. Bob's response? Did he give us similar trials which his boats have survived? No way , he implied that boats should not be made so strong, because if they were not that strong ,those trials would never have happened! Now that is an indication of someone with zero cruising experience. Changing the subject is an admission you have no relevant argument to make!
So no Perry design has ever gone aground, or been lost or damaged by accident ? Accidents simply don't happen to your designs, as fate would never DARE damage any boat with YOUR name on it? No one need ever worry about anything ever DARING TO damage one of YOUR designs? Do you put that guarantee in writing for all your clients, as an excuse for why they should rest assured that nothing will ever damage or sink any of your designs, so survivability is irrelevant, as long as they are sailing one of YOUR designs?
So give us a rundown Bob, of all the weeks of pounding on lee shores in big surf that your boats have survived, undamaged ,coral reefs they have pounded over, and collisions they have survived, relatively undamaged. Or are you again going to weasel out, by claiming that strength is irrelevant in cruising boats, because if they are flimsy enough, that wont ever happen?

My boats survive by well proven design, with decades of track record of surviving extreme challenges, and the toughest material for boatbuilding available. Bob's depend on "COSMIC KARMA." Which would you prefer to risk colliding with Fukashima debris in? Which would YOU choose to risk your crew and family in?

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 09-07-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

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Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
THat is ALL one needs in the salish sea. "A good look out" If not, then if you hit a log at something over planing speeds, or say 15-20 knots in a power boat, or one of them Icon thing a ma bobs, then maybe a log will hole you! Then again, maybe not depending upon how you hit said log.........

Hitting a log is not something I worry about in my "plastic" boat! Heck, not too many folks are worried about hitting logs in there hypalon/grp bottom boats! so I need a steelie because why?

Marty
A good lookout, on a foggy, moonless night, when you can barely see past your bow, is all you need to keep you safe? Logs never damage plastic boats?
Ya sure!

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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Another huge advantage of steel boats is they eliminate the need for keel bolts, and all the worries about hidden corrosion they cause. Sure, some plastic boats have inside ballast, but that has its liabilities as well. I remember in 74, seeing a plastic boat hauled out in Auckland, which once had inside ballast . There was a clean break where the top of the ballast had been glassed over. The ballast was on St Hellier's reef, which it had hit.
Neither that , nor keel bolt failure is possible in a well built steel boat.

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post #929 of 5317 Old 09-07-2013
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent you are such an angry little guy.

You have no idea what you are talking about re rudder post rake and no experience with designing spade rudders to back up any of your BS theories.

Fairness:
Look at your boats. There is not a fair spot on the entire hull of any of them that I have seen. They are lumpy, bumpy and very crude looking. Agricultural in qualty at best.

Lines:
Waiting to see some of your lines Brent . But if past performance is any gauge you won't post any but instead you will endeavor to change the subject by launching other random attacks. We have seen this time and time again. It's the BS way.

I'm still waiting for some photos of beautiful BS designs. Surely you have some to post. I have lots more.

" he implied that boats should not be made so strong, because if they were not that strong ,those trials would never have happened!"
Where do you get this BS, BS? You continue to make things up when it pleases you. That's called not being honest. You are getting desperate.


Playing in the new band with Larry tonight in Everett. Larry has been cruising his Passport 40 for three years. The boat is now in Annapolis and Larry is back home. It's amazing that Larry actually survived cruising for three years in one of my boats. But he did and he enjoyed it.

So save your angry, "the sky is falling" gloom and doom BS, BS. I have a lot of people sailing my boats who are doing just fine.

If you doubt my boats can do it Brent I suggest younstudy this. Memorize it. It might do you good. When you are done I can give you lots more like it. Mark Sxchaeder even did it again in one of my other designs. He likes them. Do you really think I got to be where I am by making stuff up like you do? Silly Brent.

In the words of John Kretschmer, noted yachting author:
This boat made its debut on the sailing scene in the mid '70s and subsequently altered the attitudes of performance cruisers everywhere. Can you identify it?

"OK, dear readers, I hope you didn't stop by Sailnet looking for fun, or even some modest enlightenment about how to do something on or with your boat. Nope, today it's time to test your sailboat IQ. We are going back in history a bit, but not too far, about 30 years ago, to the birth of an American classic. Ready or not, here we go.

What boat launched the storied career of naval architect Bob Perry? What boat is usually considered the first performance cruiser? What boat did Mark Schrader sail on his 1983 epic circumnavigation south of the five great capes? What boat was named “cruiser of the decade,” by Sail Magazine in 1980 and inducted into the Sailboat Hall of Fame in 1997? What boat did Francis Stokes sail in the 1976 and 1980 OSTARs? What boat epitomized the dreaded “pox,” that came to haunt the fiberglass boatbuilding industry in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s? What boat—and this one needs an asterisk—has been in continuous production longer than other? What boat is built today on an inland lake, a long way from the ocean? What boat represents one of the best buys on the used boat market for blue water cruising? By now you've either quit reading and clicked over to something more interesting or likely figured out that this is a trick quiz and there is only one answer. If your answer is the legendary Valiant 40, you're right and that means you really know you boats. Or, like me, you're just getting older."

Thanks John.

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Last edited by bobperry; 09-07-2013 at 07:47 PM.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

A foggy moonless night?!?! well, Doubt I would be going fast enough to worry about a log frankly! Probably 2-3 knots. I've hit a few logs or equal at that speed, so far so good! Then again, only a matter of time?!?!?!?!?

Have to admit, you do seem a bit angry or something as Bob says. Here I thought my Ex was an angry beetch!

ANY boat being used on the water that time, is a good boat! some are made for one purpose, other another, still yet, others for another reason! I have felt there is NO BEST boats since I was a mid single digit aged punk if you will, unlimited hydro's were king in seattle at the time. Oh those pistons sounded good. Have to admit, once you get used to the whine of a turbine, those sound KEWL too! Then again, sailing with only water sounds and air noise around you, assuming you can hear those sounds.....that is nice too. Be it a dinghy, mid teen daysailer in sloop form, maybe one of them highspeed formula 40 cats, ala DragonFly! or ______________!!!

So I am here at home playing on sailnet, when it is sunny, mid 70''s, nice north wind instead of being on my unsafe plastic boat because why? or in my 14' plastic canoe paddling!...........

Marty

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