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Pros and cons of steel sailboats

909K views 5K replies 127 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
 
#2,797 ·
Actually, I believe Brent said a day or three ago, he was heading back out cruising in his warm pilot house boat. So while he may have received it! he may not have been to the mail pickup to "receive it!"

I also noticed the sliver is "OUTSIDE" the building, and has a mast on it! neat black bottom paint job.......that is about all I saw at 25 mph going by CSR! it is getting there!

Marty
 
#2,800 ·
Definite soul brothers! The owners of that red boat sure are head of the class scumbags aren't they?
 
#2,799 · (Edited)
I think you are right. Perhaps Brent is saving the package for Christmas morning.
I don't need a thanks I would just like to know he received it.

So for now we'll leave it as a surprise.

Marty:
Yes, They stuck the mast in FRANCIS LEE yesterday for the first time. Some more rigging details to be taken care of and then the cove stripe has to be applied in exact accordance with my drawing and dimensions.

 
#2,801 ·
Marty:
Yes, They stuck the mast in FRANCIS LEE yesterday for the first time. Some more rigging details to be taken care of and then the cove stripe has to be applied in exact accordance with my drawing and dimensions.

She's looking good Bob (even if she ain't quite my cup of tea) - though I, for one, would be very interested to know how she performs on sea trial.

Perhaps you could post a video?
 
#2,802 ·
My money is on zero pitching and zero wake. Speed goes without saying I think.

I doubt we'll ever know but I'd be interested in her fuel burn.
 
#2,803 ·
My guess is she'll be quite a wet ride, but fast in any sort of chop.. hence the video request. ..and I do hope they aren't planning to mess up her sleek lines by fitting stanchions and life-rails.

She's kinda 'plank on edge'... without looking like a plank. :)
 
#2,804 ·
No life lines, no stanchions.
Wet? Not sure. The cockpit is a loooonnggg way aft.
Not pitchy but will slam from time to time uphill in a chop.
No wake is the idea. We'll see how my stern shape works.
We will get a video.
Rudder went in this morning. Fitting for the tiller this afternoon.
Still needs the cove stripe.
 
#2,808 ·
Bob,

the pic with the mast is about how I recall her looking as I went by in my maybe 1 sec glance yesterday about 1-2pm or there abouts. Did not see here out side today.

Nice to know she is getting close to finished to some degree.

Marty
 
#2,810 · (Edited)
Winter for me is that one week in July when I probably shouldn't wear shorts :)

I actually do know what you mean Bob, lately we actually have really enjoyed visiting 'cold' places in winter( generally New Zealand).

Having that experience of cosying up with a nice glass of red, in front of a fire with something yummy roasting in a oven is real nice.

Then again being able to sail all year round (ok actually there is no wind in Sydney in winter, so unless you are sailing a Bob Perry designed boat you drift more than sail), swim in the ocean for 10 1/2 months of the year and leave the house without your jacket and not die ( I spent 2 weeks in Winnipeg earlier this year :eek::eek::eek:) is also kinda nice.
 
#2,811 ·
Chall... 2 weeks in Winnipeg????? Nasty - in the cold or fighting off mosquitoes the size of bats??? ;)
 
#2,813 ·
The light blue hull with the wood stick behind FL is HELENE. HELENE is a late 1950's vintage Ben Seaborn design and a near sistership to the famous Seaborn SEA FEVER.
With fin keel and skeg hung rudder Seaborn was ahead of his time. He really knew what made boats go.

I tried unsuccessfuly several times to find out what the relationship between Seaborn and Garden was like. Seaborn's boats were dominant on the race course. But despite the fact that both designers lived in Seattle I don't think they ever had much contact. Hard to imagine.
 
#2,819 ·
Awww..that's disappointing...

Must have been in the shed... Door to the shed was locked...

I walked around for a while and looked pretty hard. I was there around 2:00.. It was a last-minute trip, since the aircraft I was to fly to Charleston on never left the gate due to a maintenance problem..

(Not a locally made aircraft)

Oh well, maybe some other time..

CSR in Ballard, right?
 
#2,821 ·
Thanks, Bob.. I'd be grateful. I rescheduled my trip for tomorrow. Hopefully we won't have airplane problems again. But if it happens again, I will call first.

(A locally built plane this time)
 
#2,823 ·
Part of what makes this interesting to me is to think about what I would want if I could commission a boat "just for me"...

I hereby volunteer to help get the boat through the locks for the first time. I offer basic skills, patience, extra fenders, and line.
 
#2,824 ·
That's a great question. Paulo tells us what's available. Bob shows us what's possible. But there hasn't been a discussion of what we really what. I mean not on the zillion dollar one off sphere but if we were designing a production or small run production boat. Of course would need to divide the discussion into
day sailor
coastal
blue water
high latitude
or like divisions

Still, would be a interesting discussion.
what material
what hull shape
what appendages
what size
what sail plan
what interior features

?anybody want to join in?
 
#2,825 ·
That's a great question. Paulo tells us what's available. Bob shows us what's possible. But there hasn't been a discussion of what we really what. I mean not on the zillion dollar one off sphere but if we were designing a production or small run production boat. Of course would need to divide the discussion into
day sailor
coastal
blue water
high latitude
or like divisions

Still, would be a interesting discussion.
what material Cold moulded wood
what hull shape Clipper bowed - old looking
what appendages Deep fin & bulb
what size 45-ish'
what sail plan Staysail Schooner
what interior features Pullman double and aft head, very woody & brassy.

?anybody want to join in?
My choices are the highlights.
 
#2,827 ·
Jon- Why staysail schooner? I know they are more weatherly and used to see an sweet Cherubini 48 sail by frequently when I sailed out of Marion but now with current options for boomed sails a true schooner is as easy to sail even single. Love your choices but would go with jib being 7/8 of fore mast and fore mast 7/8 of main mast. Somehow I think that's the prettiest rig and a "man and a boy" can handle it in anything Neptune throws your way. I think it's a same the various split rigs are gone from the production ranks as for cruising they make so much sense.
 
#2,829 · (Edited)
Because they're the most beautiful rig and I'm only dreaming. ;) I'd buy a Cherubini in a heartbeat if I had a spare $750K lying around.

I'm sure the maestro could draw up a big staysail rig that would work to windward pretty well.

Also, I'd be able to say things like "Hoist the gollywobbler". :D

P.S. My thoughts are well along the "Nightrunner" kind of thing but looking more like a Cherubini.

And I'd have the big diesel stove.
 
#2,828 ·
Marty was not thinking "what boat you would buy". Think we end up with boat is available that's closest to what boat we would want. Like you and the SO 349. Wanted input on what we want. Think to some extent production builders are tone deaf to what we would want. For instance Jon's thoughts are interesting to me as I respect his experience and at present to my knowledge there is only one builder of schooners in this country. They are narrow full keeled boats. Beautiful but a reputation for being wet. Seeing a schooner with a modern hull and bulbed fin would be wonderful.
 
#2,830 ·
Out,

That is probably true in that we would buy what is available.......BUT, with that in mind many of us find what is available to work just fine, but would like some things tweaked.

I would probably extend said boat a foot or two, along with a 2-3' prod to handle a fixed assymetric setup. Along with putting the anchor at the end, so that I could have a straight flush front. But in reality, all I have done is add the nose part with the fixed prod to a more std bow section, so I am not hitting the anchor on the bow when puling it up. Is this a good bad thing?!?!? who knows. just a different way of approaching an issue that is well known in my eye. Might even be better than a typical bow overhand, in that even this design could catch the sharp end of an anchor if it is swinging a bit. Possibly a better answer.

I would also have the forestay off the bow some, so one could have a below deck jib furler. This way I keep the SA low to the deck, with less farther above and off the deck so hopefully less heeling etc. I would also do a fractional rig with the biggest jib in the 120-130 range, and an option when it is spouse and I with a self tending 95% fore triangle jib. Total sail area would be around 23 to 25-1 for upwind work. Being as it is rather light winded here in the salish sea.

Down wind I want a hull that will allow 2x the hull speed with a crew on board in winds say over 20 knots. might need 25......that is another story for the designer to figure out.

Keel could be at least 7 if not 8' for where I sail here. This will also keep the boat lighter overall so speed specs could be met.

The SO349 and even the SF35 do not quite have the SA to meet the speed specs, but with some tweaking may be able to do so. The SF35 is around 24-1, the SO349 21-1 IIRC for both.

I'm pretty much doing week night around teh can racing, some on weekends, daysailing to weekending, with maybe one or two week longs in the summer. so my useage is different than others too. SO the how one uses a boat as you pointed out,needs to be kept in mind.

THere are some things like single vs dual rudders......not sure personally, that would probably have to be decided be how fat the ass end is to a degree. or do a really deep single rudder if the boat will heel some in certain conditions. I also prefer tillers over wheels from a steering standpoint. If the boat is fat in the rear, a tiller may not allow me the abiltity to see things to the side, so dual wheels may need to be done.

Sail lines etc would all be led to cockpit so a single person can get to ALL the lines. Line control cars would also be the norm for jibs and mainsail. So much easier to adjust the jib cars with lines from the cockpit vs pins and having to go forward and kick them......I mentioned this to the owner of Cape George boats a few weeks back. He had at the time the same opinion of some racing gimicks like this, but once I mentioned I can adjust the cars from the cockpit.....a lot nicer than going forward. He began to see the light on that item.

Marty
 
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