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Pros and cons of steel sailboats

909K views 5K replies 127 participants last post by  Faster 
#1 ·
I'm thinking about making the leap from fiberglass to steel for our next sailboat. We want to do some far flung cruising - maybe even circumnavigate. Our present boat is a 1977 Tartan 37 and while we love it - since we've had a child and possibly will have another one on the way it might get a bit small for a liveaboard situation.
This summer I drove a big, old steel tour boat around the finger lakes and started thinking that steel might be a good way to get my family around the big marble.
I've spent a week in the Caribbean on a glorious aluminium boat but have never sailed a steel one, so I have lots of questions about their performance as cruising boats?
What are some of the better designers to keep and eye out for?
How good are they in the hot climates?
Are there any extra dangers in lightning?
Thanks for any and all advice you can give.
 
#4,734 ·
Dirty- bless you for posting. I'm curious. What designs did you research before picking your boat? Do you have the basic statistics for your boat? Have you gotten insurance for your boat? Was there any difficulties? How many hours do you think it will take to completion? What's your day job? I did schooling at the local trade high school and was amazed how easy the plasma cutter cut even 1/4" plate. Have fun.
Btw glass done right is tougher than many think. Locally a Cherubini went into the shore which was covered by huge granite blocks during Sandy. She pounded for the whole storm and was taken off days later. Went down to Delran N.J. And now good as new.
 
#4,736 · (Edited)
Dirty - thank you very much for posting pics and explanations of what you're doing and going through (costs, tools, etc.). This is what most of us have been hoping for. A real, current, first-hand account.

The biggest questions I have pertaining to this thread are these:

1. If you didn't have the steel-working experience and background you have, would building a steel boat still be feasible for you? In other words, could anyone do it?

2. If a person were starting from scratch (just buying the plans and going for it), how much do you think they would have to invest in tools and equipment to do this right? For example, how much is a plasma cutter, a welder, and any other tools that are critical to doing this right?
 
#4,738 ·
Getting solar panels on the roof of my shack today. Lots of them. I'll be sending watts back to the PUD in no time and getting paid for them.

Trip to San Francisco was a huge success yesterday. Saw lots of good old friends. Got invited the the Tinsley Island Stag Cruise this summer. Whooppee, that's an even you don't want to miss.

I'd love to post three funky looking boats sitting in the mud but this fleet of CT65's racing is the best I can do for now.
 
#4,740 ·
Quite conservative actually. I had blonde hair down to my ass in '77 attending UCSB coming to the conclusion that college was for people that don't surf. Good thing because it turned out I was a terrible student, a good surfer and a really good salesman. Funny, I got busted for underage drinking in Santa Barbara around that time and the judge threw the book at me. Sentenced me to no surfing for a month. How cruel and unusual is that. I would argue that we grew up in the best of times. What do think?
 
#4,743 ·
If you mean the 70's, I couldn't disagree more. Except for being a golden age of sailboats that was a real "lost decade".

Think about it - Viet Nam, Nixon, Watergate, Disco, Iran & the Ayatollah, oil embargoes, leisure suits and the cars! the cars! 150 H.P. Corvettes:eek:

It was a horrible time.
 
#4,742 ·
Shank:
When I was in college there was no AIDS. I am thankful for that. I would not like to have mixed my college years with the threat of AIDS. I think it was a damn good time. The music was a wee bit wonky with the whole disco thing but hell, I'm a Bee Gee's fan still.

I was 31 years old when that pic wass taken and I thought I was the king of the world. I had a lot of fun designing boats, living the dream.
 
#4,746 ·
Jon:
I hear you. I was so absorbed in my work that most of the 70's just passed me by. Maybe I was lucky. We designed a lot of boats in those days and they built a lot of boats in those days. I sailed all the time and that was my world. I do remember being in Boston during the gas shortage. I remember gas going to $1 a gallon in 1979 and buying my Mercedes 5 cyl diesel for $29,500 which at the time I thought was an insane price.
 
#4,747 ·
My friend Steve inherited this aluminum boat and has been doing a major rebuild on it for a couple of years. He is an amazing welder and he has a fabulous eye for detail. My only contribution to his project was a dining table design and Steve modified that. Metal, hard chine boats do not have to be ugly as this little motor sailer shows.
 
#4,749 ·
I will try to awnser all the questions...

Firstly, yes i did all kinds of research before deciding to build my boat.
Acctually i spent a few years looking at any steel boat I could, and reading all the relevant books out there. ( nigel warren, ian nicholson, giblert klingel, thomas colvin, blah, blah, blah) I have seen some great steel boats, and some aweful ones.

My last boat was a roberts offshore 38. While at first I liked it, I quickly learned to hate that boat. So much framing. 1/8th inch hull plate. centre cockpit. no space on deck, no space below ( stupid aft cabin crawlways) as brent said, a series of closets.
there were all kinds of things that I percieved as MAJOR design flaws in that boat.
For example, an anchor locker that was foamed and doesnt drain!
deck hardware bolted to an other wise water tight deck!
rediculous fin keel and unprotected rudder.
I could go on, but it doesnt matter. At a certain point i realized that I needed to build a boat from scratch in order to get what I wanted. I then began to write down for myself what I wanted...
Basically, thicker hull plate, bilge keels, stainless trim everywhere, aft cockpit, good sized wheelhouse, tiller steering, outboard rudder, etc...
Basically it came down to a "brent Boat"
I had met brent a few years earlier when cruising around vancouver island for a summer, and had kept in touch with him.
So, I saved my pennies, found a place to build, moved in, ordered steel and started.
Brent was/is incredibly helpful putting the hull together. He sailed up, and came by all the time to awnser questions, provide ideas, and help with drawing things out. Plus he is a great guy to work around because he is always having a laugh!

As far as how many hours it will take me? I have no idea beacuse I am not done yet!
I can tell you that, I started at the end of november last year, put the hull together in about weeks work. Working with the shortest days of the year, and having lots of delays because of snow, rain, having to go to town, etc.
I can tell you, however, that my "plan" is to launch the boat by september of this year.
and spend the next few months building an interior, and finishing things out getting ready for the next summer of sailing.

Do I have insurance? No. I am my own insurance policy and firmly believe that people would be much more resposible if they lived without it alltogether.

Do I believe that Anyone could build a steel boat like this?
There is no short awsner....
So, If we lay aside all the obvious crap, I.E. you are not a total moron. ( there are alot of those lurking around, especially in bigger cities)
Than yes, I believe that anyone with the determination, and a basic set of skills could do this. lots of people have. Its all about knowing what you want, and knowing what you can do. of course it is intimidating at times, but what isnt?

As far as Tools go, You dont need much.

I bought my plasma cutter for 600CD before i started this project cause it was a good deal, and I love the thing. it'll cut half inch plate without any struggle. I also have a set of torches that I got off a farmer for free. I use them rarely.
I bought my welder a while back for just under 2000CD. But the 150 dollar buzz box that I have will do just as nice a job putting the boat together. I just bought the welder because I wanted a very versitile machine (mig,Tig, stick)
I bought 2 ton comealongs on sale at princess auto. 100 bucks each. Best investment ever, i use em for everything. not just the boat.
Thats about it for special tools. The rest is pretty much a sledge, lots of clamps, Vice grips, Like ten measuring tapes cause I break one every four days...
But then If you dont already own a set of tools, Then maybe your not the type of person that wants to build/fix/break things.

I cant remember if thats all the questions or not....

Really, ALOT OF CLAMPS,
 
#4,751 · (Edited)
Dirty:
Maybe alu would work but they built 100 of these in grp from a mold. It's a great little dink but doesn't like to be towed to quickly. I had to design "trim tabs" that fit into the rudder gudgeons to keep the stern from squatting and swamping. We built a custom 10' version at Schooner Creek a few years back. The client just had to have one and did not care what it cost.

Please check out my latest blog entry. Thanks.
 
#4,752 ·
Those are gorgeous dinks but I sure wouldn't want to try to hump one up on deck.
 
#4,754 ·
Thanks Dirty and good luck with your project. Wonder if you have any sailing polars, LPS, CM or other statistics on your boat?
A good Millermatic is a thing of joy although a cheap buzz box is easier to lug around. What are you using? Stick ?MIG. With your skill set and a shop why did you go with Fe instead of building a tent and using TIG inside to build in Al ?
 
#4,756 ·
Think it would be wicked cool to have a nesting AL dink one person could put on fore deck. Or even better incorporate Fold a Boat design so it would lay flat. Get paranoid fishing off a inflatable or dragging over rocky shoreline even with rigid bottom.
 
#4,758 ·
My buddy Steve had his boat out yesterday in some snotty weather. He had to rescue a friend with a dead engine. Cool! He got to use his towing bit aft for that job. The hull is from Colvin plans but the rest is all Steve's design work. When he's not working on his boat he flies around in the plane he built himself.
 
#4,761 ·
Have pics to prove, now to figure out where to store and post........

Poor frankie was hit by a ferry at blake island tonight.....even survived.....not sure a BS boat can do that!!!!!!!!! oh well, now that I have internet after moving a month ago, I guess I can cause problems again........

Oh yeah, I know, post is useless with out pics. LOLOL have them on phone!

Marty
 
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