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  #31  
Old 12-04-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
If you are going to live with a Yanmar, I highly recommend spending the bucks to get the service manual. It has more info, than you'll ever need and EVERYTHING that you will someday be looking for. All the torque curves are in there and good instructions on how to fix everything. I have found it essential on many occasions. The 3GM reaches peak torque between 2200 to 2800 rpm at 13-17 hp. The 2gm reaches peak at 2800 as well at 11 hp. The trick is to size the wheel so that when you are at hull speed, the engine is at the low end of that rpm spec. Fuel consumption for the 2GM looks like it's most efficient at 2800, which is also the peak torque. The 3GM is the same. The only issue is whether the 2GM can get the boat to hull speed at an efficient rpm. I doubt it. You would need to spin the 2GM at 3300 to get to only 13 hp. The 3GM on my boat does get the boat to hull speed at 16-18 hp/27-2800 rpm. They run very comfortably at this rpm. Hope this helps with your comparison.
So, are you saying that 20hp might be sufficient for a A35?
Given the A35's handling characteristics under power described earlier in thread (which I expect of a full keel boat), my biggest concern would be in close quarters (i.e., the marina). If the boat isn't doing what I want it to do, I need to change directions now, not 30 seconds from now. I'd also like the motor to have a chance to stop the boat if needed (I can have a stiff tail wind comming into my slip).
How does your A35 respond, having only 18 hp?

Last edited by L124C; 12-04-2012 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

I was conveying what the power curves show from the Manual. The 3GM30F was advertized at 29 hp, I believe, but that must be at maximum revs. Assuming the data is correct in the Yanmar manual, when I cruise at 26-2800 rpm. the engine is producing around 15-17 hp at the flywheel and even less at the shaft. At 3000 the engine feels like it's revving too high and I'm pushing it too hard. I reach my hull speed of around 6.5 knots at around 2600 rpm. Pushing it any higher just results in diminishing returns.

Maneuvering an A35 in close quarters is difficult. In reverse you have virtually NO control until you gain enough speed for the rudder to grab some water. Keel attached rudders have much less effect than rudders farther aft. I always approach any dock on my port side so that the prop wash in reverse will kick the stern in even if I have to wait to get in. Slowing forward momentum takes a Loooooong time. Everything needs to be planned and done in slow motion. I would also suggest putting a midship cleat in to use as a spring line attachment. The A35 has no midship cleat. Jon Eisberg gave me a great idea for installing cleats (which I did) a few months back so look up old posts from last summer for the details.
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Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.

Last edited by smurphny; 12-04-2012 at 04:05 PM.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I was conveying what the power curves show from the Manual. The 3GM30F was advertised at 29 hp, I believe, but that must be at maximum revs. Assuming the data is correct in the Yanmar manual, when I cruise at 26-2800 rpm. the engine is producing around 15-17 hp at the flywheel and even less at the shaft. At 3000 the engine feels like it's revving too high and I'm pushing it too hard. I reach my hull speed of around 6.5 knots at around 2600 rpm. Pushing it any higher just results in diminishing returns.

Maneuvering an A35 in close quarters is difficult. In reverse you have virtually NO control until you gain enough speed for the rudder to grab some water. Keel attached rudders have much less effect than rudders farther aft. I always approach any dock on my port side so that the prop wash in reverse will kick the stern in even if I have to wait to get in. Slowing forward momentum takes a Loooooong time. Everything needs to be planned and done in slow motion. I would also suggest putting a midship cleat in to use as a spring line attachment. The A35 has no midship cleat. Jon Eisberg gave me a great idea for installing cleats (which I did) a few months back so look up old posts from last summer for the details.
Yep...that does it. The Beta 20hp ain't going to work! Thanks for all your input, and the love you've shown your Alberg!

BTW, I had a friend who had the same 2GM20 I do (before I did). He hated it! Thought it was underpowered, had mechanical problems, etc. A mechanic at a leading Yanmar dealership asked him what he cruised at. He responded 2500 RPM. The Mechanic said: "That won't do it. This motor wants to work. Bring her up to 3000 and keep her there." (you won't find that anywhere in my Yanmar manual)! He increased the RPM, and fell in love with the motor, after hating it for 5 years!
I've found that some people who have been around diesels for years (unlike me) have a hard time thinking of a diesel cranking that fast. My motor is twenty years old and didn't receive the best care from PO's. Yet, it has been almost trouble free (two minor exceptions) for the 6 years I've owned it, and scoots my 4.5 Ton vessel along like a champ!
I assume from your comment about "living with a Yanmar" you may feel like he did, about your motor. Don't know, but maybe a prop conflict with your 3GM? Might be worth talking to a good Yanmar guy.
Thanks again!

Last edited by L124C; 12-04-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by brob76 View Post
Looks like a nice boat but the asking price is exceptionally high. Sounds like the owner is trying to recoup the costs of the re-power. I bought my A35 three years ago (1962 Hull# 54 - Auriga) and paid $7500. They were originally asking $19000. It was in about the same shape as the boat you're looking at. It had been well cared for but as in your case, nothing had been upgraded (except the engine) for many many years.
Maybe the pictures are deceiving. I would not describe this boat as "well cared for". Looks like all he did was sail her. In addition, he's made no effort to clean her up for show (lines are just strewn around, not even coiled, the head could use a cleaning, etc.) Worse yet, she is tied badly on the end of a dock were she doesn't fit. Next to her, in her previous spot sits his new boat. A lovely cruiser that looks like it would laugh at Cape Horn! The contrast is stunning. He's really not giving this old girl a break! I think it's safe to assume he's not in marketing!
I assume the asking price you are referring to is the one mentioned by another member earlier in the thread. The owner was asking 14,500 when I looked at her, and I was thinking of offering 7-10K. That was before I confirmed that she is probably under powered. What a shame...A brand new diesel in a 45 year old fixer. The only thing she has going for her is that she is a Alberg and has a new motor, and it appears, its the wrong motor!

Quote:
The Formica bulkheads are a great surface for painting. I sanded mine with 220 and painted them with with 1-part polyurethane. I also re-varnished all the interior mahogany. Looks great and was a relatively quick and easy project.
Any pictures of the interior?

Quote:
If your rigging is original as mine was, that's one of the first things you'll need to look at.
The owner claims the standing rigging was done just before he bought her, 13 years ago. Looks OK.

Quote:
I documented some of my projects on the Plastic Classic Forum.
Thanks for the link. Very informative. Nice of you to take the time to share with others in the middle of a refit! Thanks also for this informative post.
Was the Helmsman's chair the PO's joke?! How was someone supposed to use it when the tiller was down in the cockpit, two feet forward and pointed away from the chair? Maybe he was going to install a wheel, and put the chair in first!
The one thing this owner did, was install a hatch in the Salon to improve ventilation, but it looks rather odd. Seems like there must have been a more appropriate (retro) solution. And then...(as you point out) there's the question of if it was installed correctly (Just noticed acorn nuts were not used!).
The toe rails need replacement as well. I'm thinking that access below might be hindered by the head liner. Has the head liner been a problem in your refit? For example, do you have access to fasteners to re bed the grab rails on the coach top?

BTW, her hardware is all original. That doesn't bother me, I could certainly live with it (seems to function and I like the charm). However, considering I've seen several A35's in much better shape with many more bells and whistles (i.e., ST winches) asking 20,000 (probably taking 15K), and the motor issue, this boat is looking less attractive by the minute. He would almost have to give her to me for it to make any sense, and he's not going to like that option! Seems he made three bad choices. Neglecting a nice boat, putting a new motor in the neglected boat, and choosing the wrong motor, presumably to save a few bucks. At least the Ericison I mentioned earlier in the thread had the correct new motor to propel it's "flotation device"! Both sad situations!
Silly me....I keep thinking that as handy as I am, I can make sense out of bringing these girls back to life. However, as others have pointed out, unless you just want to do it for the love of it (I don't, I'm still working), you can't make cents out of others mistakes and neglect of a boat as you can in Real Estate. My problem is I don't like Real Estate as I love boats! I any case, I think you guys brought me back to my senses. Thanks again!
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Last edited by L124C; 12-04-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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  #35  
Old 12-04-2012
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I have a 62 A35.

Sailing:

She loves to sail at 15 degrees. Reef early and often and you wont have to worry over weather helm and she will still make good time.

Don't pinch or you will just go sideway. Keep her driving.

In light air she does fine. Ghosting through the lulls. But you cant pinch her!

She is heavy and will ghost through the lulls.

Docking:


You will never get her to back anywhere but into the wind unless you get good with using propwash and prop walk. With a big rudder and a blast from prop wash you can usually do alright.



Has a universal.m35 in her and i wouldnt go smaller.

Interior:

She is not a floating condo like a modern 35 footer. But she will sleep more people than you really want to cruise her with.

We would load 3kids and my wife and I and go cruise. But I would not do that with 5 adults! Maybe 4 for a weekend.

Or 2 for a month.

Lots of drawers, cubbies and hidden pockets for storage. Lots of room in keel for water tanks and a real bilge.

Formica isn't the greatest but it is maintenance free. Enough wood trim to make her look good. I think of painting the panels but simply cant bring myself to do it. worried about scratches.

The liner would not need to come out to remove the toe rails.

Exterior:

Nice bulwark that provides great footing. Nice wood toe rail.

Cockpit is not huge and tiller does take up some room.

Decent sized fixed ports for light below.

4 opening ports and 2 dorades for good ventilation. No seahood over companionway hatch.


Structure:

Overbuilt.
Even if the balsa core has some water the inner and outer skins are massive compared to modern construction.

The glass in the hull is very thick and uses cloth with no chopper gun tigers anywhere.

Chain plates are big and visible and bolted to major plywood bulkheads.

The thing is a beast.

Rig is simple and overbuilt too.



Looks:

You will always smile as you approach her, you will always turn back for one last look as you leave and you will almost always get compliments !
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Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

Ah, that asking price and what you're thinking of offering seem more realistic. I was looking at the price on Yachtworld. If you can get her for the low end of what you're thinking, then I think I would go for it.

I wouldn't necessarily write her off as underpowered with that engine. It depends on your planned use. If you're using the engine to get in and out of your slip and to avoid occasional danger, then you would probably be fine with the Beta. Beta's are solid engines and most all parts can be had relatively cheap from Kubota tractor parts dealers. James Baldwin powered an A35 with a 10hp outboard and reported that it performed adequately: Atom Voyages - Saga - Alberg 35 Refit Projects Interesting read. I like the extra power of the "26 hp" because I keep my boat on the Hudson River near NYC. I frequently have to motor again some nasty currents while dodging ferries, barges, tankers, jetskis etc etc.

Backing? With the far foward rudder these boats just don't like to back but with some practice, actually a lot of practice, it is doable. Especially if you can use prop walk to your advantage. I stay on a mooring and rarely dock so it's never been a big issue for me.

I have some pictures of the interior somewhere. I'll try to find them and post soon. Painting the cabin was one of the easier projects. Prep well and use a quality durable paint and you won't have to worry about scratching or marring. I personally just couldn't live with that wood grained formica another season. The liner is not an issue. It ends just below the dog house where the side deck turn out. It doesn't extend under the side decks. The only place the liner gets in the way is when installing hardware on the coach roof. The fasteners for my grab rails went through the liner and were secured with barrel bolts.

I have no idea what the PO of Auriga was thinking with the helm chair. Had to scratch my head for awhile on that one. The mainsheet was right in front of it too so not much utility as a helmsman's chair. Maybe he used it to fish off the stern . That hatch does look a little odd being that it opens to the side. I would prefer that it opened forward to catch some wind. Should be easy enough to sort out though.

The original Merriman and Southcoast hardware on these early Pearsons was/is very robust. All solid bronze. Those geared Merriman winches aren't the easiest to use but they are solid bronze and a heck of a lot less maintenance than modern self-tailers. They should serve you well for a long time. The PO of Auriga had added a pair Barient ST winches and left the original Merrimans for secondaries.

As far as deck delamination is concerned, if it's localized around fittings or chainplates, I wouldn't worry much about it. You can recore those spots as you go (or not). If the deck is totally saturated, it's gonna be a big job and reason enough to walk...at least knowing what I know now. The skins are extremely thick on these boats as mentioned above. You could practically walk around on the bottom skin alone with little deflection.

For the right price and assuming no major structural issues (deck, rudder etc), it still sounds like a viable deal to me. They are solid beautiful boats. As the previous poster said, you will smile every time you walk up and turn back as you walk away. I get lots of compliments and questions. She certainly stands out in a yard full of bleach bottles. People always ask if she's built of wood.
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  #37  
Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sic Semper Tyrannis View Post
I have a 62 A35.

Sailing:

She loves to sail at 15 degrees. Reef early and often and you wont have to worry over weather helm and she will still make good time.

Don't pinch or you will just go sideway. Keep her driving.

In light air she does fine. Ghosting through the lulls. But you cant pinch her!

She is heavy and will ghost through the lulls.

Docking:


You will never get her to back anywhere but into the wind unless you get good with using propwash and prop walk. With a big rudder and a blast from prop wash you can usually do alright.



Has a universal.m35 in her and i wouldnt go smaller.

Interior:

She is not a floating condo like a modern 35 footer. But she will sleep more people than you really want to cruise her with.

We would load 3kids and my wife and I and go cruise. But I would not do that with 5 adults! Maybe 4 for a weekend.

Or 2 for a month.

Lots of drawers, cubbies and hidden pockets for storage. Lots of room in keel for water tanks and a real bilge.

Formica isn't the greatest but it is maintenance free. Enough wood trim to make her look good. I think of painting the panels but simply cant bring myself to do it. worried about scratches.

The liner would not need to come out to remove the toe rails.

Exterior:

Nice bulwark that provides great footing. Nice wood toe rail.

Cockpit is not huge and tiller does take up some room.

Decent sized fixed ports for light below.

4 opening ports and 2 dorades for good ventilation. No seahood over companionway hatch.


Structure:

Overbuilt.
Even if the balsa core has some water the inner and outer skins are massive compared to modern construction.

The glass in the hull is very thick and uses cloth with no chopper gun tigers anywhere.

Chain plates are big and visible and bolted to major plywood bulkheads.

The thing is a beast.

Rig is simple and overbuilt too.



Looks:

You will always smile as you approach her, you will always turn back for one last look as you leave and you will almost always get compliments !
That's been my take on the mica surfaces as well. They are very durable and clean up nicely. I have thought about painting them but have decided that although it would brighten the interior up a bit, it would just create a maintenance nightmare in the long run. Any paint gets chips, scratches, and discolors with time.

You will also love the way she handles. There is no pounding and she's very stable, even in a big following sea. Speaking of following seas, one thing you really should consider is some kind of preventer system which makes running a lot less dangerous.
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

I agree. She doesn't pound at all. I'll go bow into a big wake sometimes and expect to get tossed around like a rag doll. She just splits the wake like it's nothing. Same in following seas. The waves just split under the counter.

I originally rigged a preventer going to a block at the bow. It worked but was a hassle to set up every time I jibed. I also don't like the idea of a backwinded main in the event of an unplanned jibe. I found one of these (pictured below) buried in a locker and had no idea what it was. After some research I figured out it was a Walder Boom Brake. Really ingenious piece of kit for controlled jibes. I keep it rigged with a 4:1 purchase leading back to the cockpit all the time.
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

[quote=brob76;957164]
Quote:
I wouldn't necessarily write her off as underpowered with that engine. It depends on your planned use. If you're using the engine to get in and out of your slip and to avoid occasional danger, then you would probably be fine with the Beta. Beta's are solid engines and most all parts can be had relatively cheap from Kubota tractor parts dealers. James Baldwin powered an A35 with a 10hp outboard and reported that it performed adequately: Atom Voyages - Saga - Alberg 35 Refit Projects Interesting read. I like the extra power of the "26 hp" because I keep my boat on the Hudson River near NYC. I frequently have to motor again some nasty currents while dodging ferries, barges, tankers, jetskis etc etc.
Backing? With the far forward rudder these boats just don't like to back but with some practice, actually a lot of practice, it is doable. Especially if you can use prop walk to your advantage. I stay on a mooring and rarely dock so it's never been a big issue for me.
Wow! They went all out to rid Saga of that nasty "Bio Hazard" inboard! Most of us know of cruisers that have circumnavigated with no motor at all. A dock mate of mine is very proud of operating a 5 Ton boat with a 6hp outboard. However I've seen him bounce the bow of the dock so many times I don't even want to think about it. Hearing that little motor scream in reverse as he attempts to slow the boat down under a tailwind, makes me cringe! I've also seen him perform heroic feats of athleticism (i.e., sprinting from bow to stern, or vise versa) that have me convinced one day he will do a face plant onto the deck or dock, as the boat continues to back out of the slip! Though he claims it works for him, he can't afford to refit the boat with an inboard, and the use of the term Bio Hazard (as if a outboard is Bio Friendly!) in the case of Saga may explain their motive. However, I'm skeptical the outboard works much better for them.
I'm not worried about dealing with the strong SF tides slightly underpowered. However, maneuvering in a marina, with a full keel, limited rudder, and where the strong winds are no longer my friend, is another issue. Way On and more importantly, backing thrust makes a big difference. I know about midship cleats, but bringing the boat to a jarring halt doesn't work for me either. Being on the hook or at a mooring changes everything. In addition, every time I looked at the motor, I'd think about how it had been done on the cheap (not my style). I'll get off my soap box now! In any case, a sea trial would tell me if motor might work.

Quote:
That hatch does look a little odd being that it opens to the side. I would prefer that it opened forward to catch some wind.
Yet, another excellent point!

Quote:
As far as deck delamination is concerned, if it's localized around fittings or chainplates, I wouldn't worry much about it. You can re core those spots as you go (or not). If the deck is totally saturated, it's gonna be a big job and reason enough to walk...at least knowing what I know now. The skins are extremely thick on these boats as mentioned above. You could practically walk around on the bottom skin alone with little deflection.
Brings up something I forgot to mention. I noticed a fine pattern on the deck that looked like glass cloth, not a non skid pattern. I wondered if the deck had been redone. If so, I would think that enough epoxy would have been laid over the glass to conceal the pattern. I asked the owner about it and he said he had painted the deck with All Grip, but had done nothing else. What does the factory deck look like? Is their a non skid pattern, or a fine pattern as I describe? In either case, the fore deck definitely has issues, but nothing I'm not willing to deal with.
Quote:
For the right price and assuming no major structural issues (deck, rudder etc), it still sounds like a viable deal to me. They are solid beautiful boats. As the previous poster said, you will smile every time you walk up and turn back as you walk away. I get lots of compliments and questions. She certainly stands out in a yard full of bleach bottles.
Don't I know it! It was the allure of the A/E35 that even made me consider these boats. I look at that boat every time I leave/return to my marina.
I may make an offer subject to sea trial and survey, but I will basically be taking her off his hands. Who knows, she's been on the market a long time, and I'll bet he is tired of looking at her. She's docked in back of his house!

Last edited by L124C; 12-05-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012
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Re: Looking at a Alberg 35

There was a non-skid pattern in the deck from Pearson when she was built. Maybe someone has re-cored her already. After the re-coring, I did the decks with Kiwi Grip which I highly recommend. The stuff is easy to apply and unbelievably durable.
Never seen a side-opening hatch on an A35. One issue with the hatch is that it can snag your jib sheet under the right conditions. Wrapping a pc. of line or a pc. of shock cord in the space can eliminate the problem.

I like the look of that brake. I tried the bow line method as well. The problem is that there is not enough angle from the bow. Recently built a really heavy-duty "ladder" type brake from some 1/2" s.s. stock but have not given it a good test yet. I think it will probably work well. I made a long plate shaped to the boom that spreads the load out. I'm always worried about the possibility of bending the boom with a midpoint preventer. A set preventer has more danger of damaging the boom if the sail hits the water whereas the friction device will give.
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Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.

Last edited by smurphny; 12-05-2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: sp
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