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  #131  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

I am not sure that we are reading the same quotes and arriving at the same understanding of what is being said. And unfortunately I do not read French.

But the good news is that you and I agree on a whole lot of points here. For example, the more stability that a boat has for its drag, the more performance it will have, since it can carry more sail area at any given heel angle.

Where we are getting into problems is in the interpretation of specific sentences. For example, take the Finot quote:

"Between two sailboats with the same wet surface the stiffest boat is the one that can carry more sail."

I would interpret this sentence to mean, if we are comparing two sail boats, and both happen to have equal drag, the stiffest boat of the two, would be able to carry more sail area. I would not interpret that sentence to mean that the term 'stiffness' would be defined as meaning a boat literally mean that the definition of the term 'stiffest' directly means the boat which can carry more sail area. And I would agree 100% with the interpretation that I am coming away with, because the net effect is that a boat with increased stiffness (initial stability) is the boat which is capable of carrying more side force which can be in the form of a powered up saul or more sail area for any given angle of heel.


Similarly, the Dave Gerr quote " power…... is also termed “stiffness" " translates to in English naval architectural jargon as meaning, "There is a term 'powerful' used yacht design discussions which refers to a hull form that has a lot of initial stability". When a naval architect says that hull form has a lot of 'power', it means that a boat has a lot of form stability and as such it is synonymous with the term "stiff" which also means that a boat has a lot of form stability.

Power in this case does not refer to 'drive', implying that the boat has a lot of sail area. All that the term 'power' as used to describe a hull form does mean is that that hull has enough initial stability to stand up to a lot of sail area without heeling as much.

And again, while the power (meaning the stiffness of the hull which simply means the initial stability of the boat) is an important factor in a PHRF rating, so is the sail area of the boat, its drag, the efficiency of its rig, keel and rudder, and so on. It is possible to have a tender, low drag boat that has a very fast rating. A good example of that would be the Olsen 29/30 or the Hobie 33.

So I still say, our difference is in the interpretation of the terms, but not in the way that boats behave.

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 01-23-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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  #132  
Old 01-26-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

FYI, Hull No. 1 is currently on display at Strictly Sail Chicago.
Overall it is a good looking boat and the interior fit and finish is very high quality as you you expect from IP. Deck and Hull construction is infused and vacuum bagged, no balsa core.
Personally I believe they are going to sell quite a few of these babies.
I will try and get some photos today.
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  #133  
Old 01-26-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailortjk1 View Post
FYI, Hull No. 1 is currently on display at Strictly Sail Chicago.
Overall it is a good looking boat and the interior fit and finish is very high quality as you you expect from IP. Deck and Hull construction is infused and vacuum bagged, no balsa core.
Personally I believe they are going to sell quite a few of these babies.
I will try and get some photos today.
So what do you think about the boat as a cruising boat? How about storage?

i have looked for movies or photos about the boat on the net and I found not anything of value. That is a bit odd for a boat presentation.

all I could find was this movie where we see the boat in a glance:

http://www.nbcchicago.com/video/#!/n...Pier/188296621

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 01-26-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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  #134  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Paulo- I see what you mean. The design looks a little better in the video that in the earlier renderings. To me there are some pretty strange details like the strange mounting for the Hoyt jib boom. I just don't get it.

The boat still strikes me as a gryphon, a odd amalgamation of goals and parts that neither fllies like an eagle or prowls with the ferrosity of a lion.

But maybe that is just me.
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  #135  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

We toured the boat yesterday at Strictly Sail. Both Tim Jackett and Bob Johnson were on board. There was about a 15-20 min. wait as there was a "sentry" at the top of the steps monitoring the number of people on board at one time.

Strictly Sail Chicago is an out of water show and many boats didn't have their mast stepped. This one had a cut off mast, just above the boom.

Walking up to the boat it looked pretty enough. Once on board, I spoke briefly with Jackett asking about the mainsail setup. I was curious how much work would have to be done dropping the sail. They use lazyjacks and that V-shaped boom that's supposed to catch the sail as it drops. Jackett said you have to train the sail to flake properly until the stiffness is worked out at the folds and then it's just a matter of letting the main drop into the boom. He agreed a system like the Dutchman was better than lazyjacks.

Once below I was impressed with the build quality. It reminded me mostly of the Tartans we saw at Annapolis. Bob Johnson was below talking to the Larsen Marine sales guy so I started probing around.

I went to the starboard aft cabin and opened an access panel to the engine. Too dark to see much. The opening was roughly 20" square. I then went to the port cabin and tried to open that panel but couldn't. I made some noise trying to open it.

I walked out of the cabin and into the galley and was looking at the layout. It has drawers for the refrigeration and freezer (one each) and they just slide out. I was about to ask about the drawers sliding out when underway when I saw a slide lever that locked both drawers closed. Don't forget to do that after each use!

Johnson asked me if I had any questions and I told him I had just answered my question then he said he noticed me banging at the engine access panel in the port cabin. I told him I was unable to open that one. He said it must be stuck.

He walked back to open it for me and had the same experience then added a little more oomph than I did and finally opened it. The panel has the push-pop-open buttons and the new foam insulation was keeping the button lock from releasing.

I asked if there was a light in there and he said "Yes". He started reaching for the switch and I went to the starboard side and opened that panel and by then he had turned on the light but was back in the saloon so I couldn't ask him the questions I had planned. I also would have asked to open the stair access to get a better idea of what is where in the engine compartment and how easy or difficult it is to access for maintenance but people were coming and going.

So I just asked Bob about ease of access for oil changes, etc. Bob's went through a number of locations (oil filter, etc.) and I felt comfortable they didn't bury anything.

I thought the cabin wood was cherry but Bob said it was sapele. I have a nice slab of figured sapele sitting in my shop waiting to become something beautiful one day. But the sapele they use is straight grained. I've never worked with straight grained sapele but I know it's about the same cost as cherry or mahogany and cheaper than teak. Bob talked about book-matching the veneer of sapele being easier than other marine friendly woods.

As I walked forward I opened the door to the head and found it sticky. I intentionally opened and closed it a few times so Bob could hear the rubbing sound and he came over and we talked some more. The boat was so new all the wood had not fully stabilized.

After checking out the forward cabin I found, overall, that I was impressed by the quality of the boat. As I was walking out of the forward cabin I sat down on one of the faux leather setees. I asked Bob what material it was (I thought it was leather). He told me (I don't remember the name) and said their experience with real leather on a boat and this material told them this was the best choice.

Bob sat down next to me and asked me a few questions about myself (probably because not many women poke around in engine rooms) and I mentioned I'm a retired electrician. He then enthusiastically told me he would love to show me the wiring at the panel and how every wire is numbered at each end for identification and how neatly the wiring install is done. He really lit up when he said that and I could tell he was proud of the quality. When I said, "Show me," he said he can't because the A/C was on and he'd have to shut down the power. I didn't tell him we electricians often work things live.

Had there not been so many people waiting to see the boat I would have spent a lot longer checking out the boat but I thanked Bob for his time and went topside. Before I left I talked to Tim for a couple of minutes asking him about the rigging. It's a solent rig and has a jib boom like the Island Packett. I don't care for the jib boom because I like the foredeck clear 'cuz that's my favorite place when under way but I didn't tell Tim that.

I'm not crazy about the head or the location. While I heard many showgoers complain when an aft cabin was used for storage or utility, I like that. Putting three cabins in a 40' boat doesn't appeal to me. I would have designed a different cabin layout more friendly to cruising. But I think a lot of buyers today want 3+ bedrooms and 2+ bathrooms.

Having done my fair share of cruising, the boat didn't call to me. I liked it better then the IP but not quite as much as the T4000. But to give any critical analysis of the boat I'd have to spend a lot more time on it. I really appreciated the fact Jackett and Johnson were on board. If I had more time I'm sure I would have learned a lot more.

The boat is a looker, both inside and out. It seems well built and reasonably priced for a boat of that quality (MSRP $389,950) and you wouldn't have to spend a lot more to get it ready for a bluewater sail.

I really think anyone who wants to know more about the boat could e-mail Bob or Tim and I would think they would get back to you. Bob seemed very willing to help, Tim was a bit quieter.
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  #136  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Paulo- I see what you mean. The design looks a little better in the video that in the earlier renderings. To me there are some pretty strange details like the strange mounting for the Hoyt jib boom. I just don't get it.

...
I agree, but nothing that would not be solved by the shipyard at the costumers request. This is an essentially sound boat (hull and sail area) with some inadequate details in what regards a performance cruiser. I guess this will be a semi-custom boat and they will be more than happy to accommodate a client.

I guess that the real deal breaker will be the price that it will cost over an already expensive boat. Of course this is not, as advertised by them, a top offshore cruiser racer but a luxurious performance cruiser like for instance the Arcona 410.



Off course, this one has none of the strange details you mention

Regards

Paulo
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  #137  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

I too viewed the BJ40 at Strictly Sail. I really wanted to be impressed because I mostly like Island Packets and Bob's prior work. I also like most of what Tim did while at C&C. However, I have to say that the BJ40 was a bit underwhelming in person.

I was put off by the gelcoat imperfections I noticed while waiting in line to board. The dark blue hull had several "smudges" near the bow and the white boot stripe lines had areas where the blue from above was creeping in. Once on board, I found several small details such as fiberglass/epoxy dust in the ports that made me believe they rushed this boat from the factory to the show.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a poor quality boat overall, but I had higher expectations given IP's reputation. I also understand that this is hull #1, so things should improve, but you would think that a "world debut" showing would have the boat in tip-top shape.

Without having any knowledge of how this boat sails yet, I'd probably take my money elsewhere if I had $350k-$400k to spend on a 40-ish foot cruiser.

I've got a few pictures showing some of the deck, cockpit and cabin details that I can post later if anyone is interested.
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  #138  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
So what do you think about the boat as a cruising boat? How about storage?
Guys, I never made it back on board, I was not willing to stand in line for twenty - thirty minutes with the rest of the crowd on Saturday.
No boat is worth that aggravation for me.
I probably spent about 15 minutes total looking around on Friday. It's a boat as far as I am concerned.
The two others here have written more in depth accounts of their time on board. My biggest thumbs up comes from the piece of deck core I found laying on the galley counter.
Like I said earlier, I believe they will find buyers who are willing to over spend.
People with more money than they know what to do with will love this boat.

The more impressive boat for me at the show was the Polish Built Delphia. Other than the in-line Galley I liked most things about this boat.
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  #139  
Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
...
Having done my fair share of cruising, the boat didn't call to me. I liked it better then the IP but not quite as much as the T4000. But to give any critical analysis of the boat I'd have to spend a lot more time on it. I really appreciated the fact Jackett and Johnson were on board. If I had more time I'm sure I would have learned a lot more.

..
Nice job

Regarding comparing the Tartan 4000 with the BJ40 and if you talk only about the interior it is natural that the Tartan appeals more to cruising since it had a much bigger interior volume and has more space for everything.

The Tartan is a beamy boat with a smaller B/D ratio. The BJ is a moderately beam boat relying more on ballast than the Tartan in what regards stability.

This makes for two different boat in what regards sailing: The Tartan 4000 will sail with less heel and should be very steady running downwind. The BJ will point much better and will have a better performance upwind it will be more comfortable in a seaway (specially upwind) and will not be as stable going downwind even if the hull transom design will make it a lot more stable than older designs with narrow transoms.

I guess that one will chose the BJ over the Tartan not by the interior but because appreciates what the boat has to offer in what regards sailing and is willing to exchange that for a less voluminous interior, that even so, by your description, is a good cruising interior.

Regards

Paulo
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Old 01-28-2013
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailortjk1 View Post
The more impressive boat for me at the show was the Polish Built Delphia. Other than the in-line Galley I liked most things about this boat.
I knew nothing about Delphia and was pleasantly surprised too when we boarded her. At 47', she was the largest boat we boarded (I think the largest there) and I'm sure that added to the wow factor. And I can't forget to mention LED lighting in every closet and storage area. Nice feature for older eyes.
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