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  #11  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

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Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
Anyone know the pricing range yet? Base and sail-away?
About 380k sailaway with basic wind/speed package.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

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Originally Posted by night0wl View Post
You're kidding right? Beneteau's may be a lot of things, but *NO ONE* calls the First line "slow". First series Beneteaus bring home hardware.

This...looks like a porky island packet that put on a mask (a plumb bow) and some new shoes (a bulb deep keel) and now is going to go to the ball as a speed demon...doesn't make sense to me.

Self tacking jib...and is that a boom furler? (*EDIT* - I stand corrected - its a batt-car/lazyjack system) Not many true performance cruisers would go with that equipment. Even with fancy sails and the new underwater profile, this is going to be slow unless those epoxy vacuuming methods of manufacture really really reduce weight. It may be faster than an Island Packet, but an Island Packet 420, by comparison has a base rating in the mid-140s (thats slow for >40 feet of waterline).

I do have to commend them for not cramming a second head into the boat. Although instead of a 3rd cabin, I'd like to have seen more storage/lazarette space. Racing means sail changes/wet sails...who wants to store that in a sleeping cabin and get the upholstery all wet/moldy!
Slow is a relative concept. I agree with you that this is not a cruiser/racer in a sense nobody will buy this boat if it is going to be used mainly for racing like someone could buy a J 122 or a First 40. Regarding those two, there is a big difference between a J122 and a First 40 and not only in price. The first one would be competitive from the start while the First standard boat, the CR is not even a cored boat. You would have to talk with Benetau to have a really competitive racer like the ones that are winning races or can race at the same levell with a J122. The Blue jacket would not be even be bought by someone that uses the boat in a balanced way, for cruising and for club racing.

However I agree that even the First CR standard would be a much more adapted boat for club racing (regarding the Bluejacket) and it will be a faster boat. The boat is more powerful than a Bluejacket with a bigger RM (bigger B/D ratio) and most of all much better equipped to trim better the sails and that is indispensable for racing.

The Bluejacket has a better interior for cruising, a bigger tankage and I guess that it will have a decent anchor locker that is one of the weak points of the First. It will be a relatively fast boat and not much slower then a First, if we consider cruising and not racing and in what regards to call it a performance cruiser....well, if compared with a IP certainly is

By European standards I guess that could be called a fast cruiser but not a performance cruiser, but this are only words. What the boat is not definitively is a cruiser-racer and that not in account of the hull design but in what refers that heavy system for self taking the front sail, the number of winches, and the position/size of the traveler.

Tim Jackett says about the design brief: The design challenge presented was to create a yacht with a performance pedigree, one that could compete effectively in around-the-buoy and offshore races yet provide a level of comfort, build quality and ease of use that would gratify the entire family.

I don't think that the boat as it is adequate or effective to "compete effectively in around-the-buoy and offshore races" but I don't see as very difficult a more sportive version of this boat, one that could be qualified as a performance boat or even a cruiser racer. It will not race at the same levelly of a J122 but it will be more adapted to cruising, particularly long range cruising, than the J122.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-01-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

For those arguing the BJ40 isn't a "racer-cruiser", I'd argue that the proper term is probably "performance cruiser". The Solent rig and Hoyt boom are there for ease of sailing, which is generally a cruiser priority, IMO. While it could race, I suspect it will appeal mostly to the cruising crowd looking for a bit more speed than than more traditional cruisers (IP full foil keel boats, etc.) can provide.

All of this is interesting in the context of Island Packet's own philosophy statement: "We understand that the definition of 'performance' in the cruising context goes well beyond boat speed and must include safe, simple, predictable, and seakindly handling as well."
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

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Originally Posted by kwaltersmi View Post
For those arguing the BJ40 isn't a "racer-cruiser", I'd argue that the proper term is probably "performance cruiser". The Solent rig and Hoyt boom are there for ease of sailing, which is generally a cruiser priority, IMO. While it could race, I suspect it will appeal mostly to the cruising crowd looking for a bit more speed than than more traditional cruisers (IP full foil keel boats, etc.) can provide.

All of this is interesting in the context of Island Packet's own philosophy statement: "We understand that the definition of 'performance' in the cruising context goes well beyond boat speed and must include safe, simple, predictable, and seakindly handling as well."
It is, certainly not a racer-cruiser even if on the brief program Tim Jackett says that he is doing that kind of boat. Performance cruiser is a more vague description and the Bluejacket would not qualify as that in Europe.

A performance cruiser by European standards will include a rigging that will permit to sail the boat with a perfect trim of the sails and that includes on a standard boat a backstay adjuster, a big travell on the back of the boat, 6 winches (if the boat has not a direct main), four of them on the cockpit, one for the Genoa/spinnaker/Code 0 or Spinnaker, the other to the main and in most of the cases German sheeting.

An European main market mass production boat like the Jeanneau 409, not considered as a performance cruiser, has a very similar rigging a not very different weight and in its performance version (still not a performance boat) will be faster than the Bluejacket.

The Jeanneau 409, like the Bluejacket 40 are fast cruising boats. To be called a performance cruising boat depends on the definition.

In Europe anyone that is looking for a performance boat will be looking for the means to have a complete control on sail trim, controls that are nonexistent on the Bluejacket and therefore it would not be called here a performance boat. It see that in America they call performance boats to a lot of slower boats that in Europe would not have that qualification, like the Tartan or the Catalina. Maybe the Bluejacket is a performance boat by American standards

Many American say that a J122 or a First 40 or a Salona 41 are not cruising boats but racing boats. For those the Bluejacket will be a performance cruiser, even a cruiser racer.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-01-2012 at 10:57 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Anyway you look at it this thread has been up for two days and there's only 15 posts... With no one screaming "I'm buying one!"

So it will be interesting to see how they go. I think Island Packet are trying to enter into a very competitive area of the market. You would think the boat will have to be very good and at a very good price to make inroads....

Does anyone here think a current IP owner will change to the Blue JAcket?
So who will be the market? Young pre-ip people? Sort of old but not old enough
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

Not as slow looking as the original designs, but still looks slow enough! Many of the C&C designs by TJ had a hard time sailing to there ratings. so even if this boat was a cruise racer, it would probably have a hard time sailing to the ratings also. Not on my list of boats if I had what will probably be $.5 mil out the door ready to race/sail etc!

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  #17  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

When I read the descriptions of the Blue Jacket 40, I think to myself, this ought to be a boat that I really like. I think, that we have been through several decades of improvement in our understanding of performance, motion comfort, hardware and rig design, structural load paths and structural and material design technology that should be filtering into the world of cruising yachts, and producing boats which clearly are improvements of the performance cruising boats of past generations.

When I look at boats like the Morris Ocean series, or the latest Hallberg Rasseys, Najads, XC 38, I see the genetic influence of the improvements in yacht design science. And while these are wildly expensive boats to buy, their designs show an intent that begins to suggest an improvement to the breed that ideally will filter down into less expensive versions. And infact, to one degree or another, that same thinking has filtered down into less expensive and less offshore oriented models, such as some of the latest Beneteaus, Dufours, and even Catalinas.

And from an arm chair point of view, my sense is that someone like Tim Jackett should have the skill to develop an American, mass market oriented version of the boats produced in Europe or our own custom market, but this alliance between Tim Jackett and Island Packet has resulted in the proverbial ‘Camel: a horse designed by committee’.

As much as I want to like the Blue Jacket, as much as I am staunch advocate for performance cruising boats, as much as I applaud Island Packet for leaving their traditional comfort zone, when I look at the Blue Jacket in detail, I come away wondering “what the heck were they thinking?” Both Tim Jacket and Island Packet should have known better. To me this is a gimmicky version of what this boat should have been. The annoying part is if you read what they wanted to accomplish, it sounds so good... so right. The tragedy in my mind is that they did not come closer to their own mark. And the tragedy is that in these difficult times for boat builders, they identified a market they they uniquely could have dominated if the did it right, but instead they appear to have missed their mark. And while they may sell a bunch of these solely on name recognition, the shame on them is that they should have produced a boat which sold because it was a superb design well executed.

What they call this, racer-cruiser, performance cruiser, offshore passage maker, is besides the point. What this is vs what it could be, is where my disappointment lies.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 02-27-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

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Originally Posted by bjung View Post
About 380k sailaway with basic wind/speed package.
Ooph, that's almost double a reasonably equipped Beneteua First 40...with a suite of sails and electronics.
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

It's got carpet in the aft cabins
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  #20  
Old 12-02-2012
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Re: Blue Jacket 40 (new racer/cruiser)

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Originally Posted by rugosa View Post
It's got carpet in the aft cabins
That's the deal breaker for me...Actually I really want to like this boat, but like everyone else I just can't. Then again I have only seen 3D renderings of the boat so it might look a little different in person. Of course I am not in the market for a $380,000 boat so obviously the designer didnt have me in mind when he designed it.
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