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post #11 of Old 12-17-2012
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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

Adam,
I have a 220 on my CD25 and it's track accommodates my 220.
According to the CD Owners Manual, a CD30 has a 18" bow sprite so a 220 would fit just fine.
I would be interested to know where you got the documentation for your above statement.
Dick

Last edited by Flybyknight; 12-17-2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: sp.
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post #12 of Old 12-17-2012
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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
John,

You can get the book answer on slowness here;
PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps
where you'll see the CD rates 207 versus a 174 for a C&C 30. Now 33 seconds a mile wont make a good day of sailing bad, for being a little slower. But these ratings are for average wind speeds, my experience is that in lighter air the slower boats completely stop a lot sooner. What that may mean in your venue is that with a C&C 30 you might enjoy Summer sailing sailing 70% of the time you wish to, whereas with CD 30 you could sail only 40% of the time you wish to.

So the slower boat means you get 40% less sailing. If you want to enjoy your Summer in a light air venue, get a good performance boat, and even then, equip her with a 150% genoa and a spinnaker (preferably an oversize furling asym on a 4-5 foot sprit), and spend a lot more of the summer, well, sailing.
IMHO this is the best advice here. We have very light air here in the summer as well. If you want to go sailing instead of bobbing around a great deal of the time. get a lighter boat with a bigger rig and a smaller keel than the CD.

I have time in on an Alberg 30 here and it was frustrating. Get a more contemporary design and you'll have more fun for your stated purposes.

Edit: re: PHRF 207 for a 30' makes it a dog - my 26' Quarter Tonner rated 195

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.

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post #13 of Old 12-17-2012
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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Originally Posted by Flybyknight View Post
I have a 220 on my CD25 and it's track accommodates my 220 just fine.
I would be interested in where you got the documentation for your above statement.
Maybe I'm mistaken. I got J = 13.25 feet for a Cape Dory 30 from sailboatdata.com. 13.25 * 220% = 29.15, which, okay, is about a foot less than the listed LOA of 30.21 feet.

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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Originally Posted by Flybyknight View Post
Adam,
I have a 220 on my CD25 and it's track accommodates my 220.
According to the CD Owners Manual, a CD30 has a 18" bow sprite so a 220 would fit just fine.
I would be interested to know where you got the documentation for your above statement.
Dick
A 220%? I gotta say I have never heard of a sail for a sloop larger than 170%, and that was back in the old days. A 220% sounds like a calculator error....

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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
IMHO this is the best advice here. We have very light air here in the summer as well. If you want to go sailing instead of bobbing around a great deal of the time. get a lighter boat with a bigger rig and a smaller keel than the CD.

I have time in on an Alberg 30 here and it was frustrating. Get a more contemporary design and you'll have more fun for your stated purposes.

Edit: re: PHRF 207 for a 30' makes it a dog - my 26' Quarter Tonner rated 195
Very poor advice here, actually just plain wrong. While I admit that my Alberg is a bit slower than some, if there is wind it will move just as any other boat, just slower. you just have to know how to make the boat sail in light air, something this poster does not obviously know how to do. I had trouble at first and after some practice and the right sails, my alberg moves quite nicely under 10kts now. BTW the sailing here in the summer is not too bad at all, this summer saw quite a few days with 10-15. even some 20kt days. Heck I have been trying to get out here lately in DEC and the winds have been light and too foggy. Its a mixed bag so buy the boat you like. if the wind gets kicking which it does....you'll be glad you're in an Alberg designed boat.


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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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A 220%? I gotta say I have never heard of a sail for a sloop larger than 170%, and that was back in the old days. A 220% sounds like a calculator error....
I never have either - they had 180's on the old, very long ended CCA boats some times and even they sheeted to the transom corners like a spinnaker.

The Alberg I sailed had a 180 and the clew was aft of the cockpit sheet winch.

We also had to have a guy in the bow pulpit at all times because you couldn't see a thing to leeward from the cockpit.

I can't see how you could even get a sheeting angle on a 220.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Very poor advice here, actually just plain wrong. While I admit that my Alberg is a bit slower than some, if there is wind it will move just as any other boat, just slower. you just have to know how to make the boat sail in light air, something this poster does not obviously know how to do. I had trouble at first and after some practice and the right sails, my alberg moves quite nicely under 10kts now. BTW the sailing here in the summer is not too bad at all, this summer saw quite a few days with 10-15. even some 20kt days. Heck I have been trying to get out here lately in DEC and the winds have been light. Its a mixed bag so buy the boat you like. if the wind gets kicking which it does....you'll be glad you're in an Alberg designed boat.
Sorry, but a PHRF of 228 on a 30' is not slow - it's VERY slow. A Capri 22 rates 207. A Wetsnail 32 rates 213.

I fully agree that Albergs are good looking, well built and sail well when the wind blows (with a lot of weather helm in my experience) but they ARE slow in light air.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Originally Posted by Cruiser2B View Post
Very poor advice here, actually just plain wrong. While I admit that my Alberg is a bit slower than some, if there is wind it will move just as any other boat, just slower. you just have to know how to make the boat sail in light air, something this poster does not obviously know how to do. I had trouble at first and after some practice and the right sails, my alberg moves quite nicely under 10kts now. BTW the sailing here in the summer is not too bad at all, this summer saw quite a few days with 10-15. even some 20kt days. Heck I have been trying to get out here lately in DEC and the winds have been light and too foggy. Its a mixed bag so buy the boat you like. if the wind gets kicking which it does....you'll be glad you're in an Alberg designed boat.
Here is a video of my Alberg with the drifter, doing about 3kts on a day that saw no more than 8kts of wind. She is moving along quite nicely.

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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Sorry, but a PHRF of 228 on a 30' is not slow - it's VERY slow. A Capri 22 rates 207. A Wetsnail 32 rates 213.

I fully agree that Albergs are good looking, well built and sail well when the wind blows (with a lot of weather helm in my experience) but they ARE slow in light air.
Never said it was fast, nor did the OP require a race boat. A Cape Dory 30 with the right sails will move fairly well on a light day on the Chesapeake or anywhere. An Alberg designed boat can and does make a great day/weekend cruiser. A good light air sail made all the difference for me in the light airs of the chesapeake.... but what do i know....I just own one and have a video, several, to prove an Alberg can move in light air......

My Alberg had some weather helm when I first sailed her. Last year when I rerigged my boat, I redesigned the mast base plate, just drilled some additional holes, to allow the mast to move forward even further over the beam. I moved the mast forward an additional 7/8" of an inch and it has made a tremendous diffence in reducing weather helm. maybe try it on the one you used to sail......


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Re: Cape Dory 30 - How slow is "slow?"

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A 220%? I gotta say I have never heard of a sail for a sloop larger than 170%, and that was back in the old days. A 220% sounds like a calculator error....
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