Rethinking inboard - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-08-2013
rbyham's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 396
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 2
rbyham is on a distinguished road
Rethinking inboard

We were on two boats today. Both had inboard diesels. One a yanmar one a westerbeke. Both in 27-28 foot range. Plenty of room below but... the smell was heavy of engine in both regards. To this point I have been committed to an inboard diesel for Charleston waters. Now not so sure. I would not want an outboard hanging off the back for many reasons. But I saw a Cape dory online tonight with a built-in outboard well in rear lazarette. This is starting to look like a good option. The well reduces or even alleviates cavitation problems. That and the sound reduction of a closed lid and affordability of outboard maintenance really has me wondering. Beyond the Dory are there other boats out there in excess of 25 feet with a built in well? I see James Baldwin modifying Alberg 30s to use a well... but are there other options? Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-08-2013
steve77's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 481
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 5
steve77 is on a distinguished road
Re: Rethinking inboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
We were on two boats today. Both had inboard diesels. One a yanmar one a westerbeke. Both in 27-28 foot range. Plenty of room below but... the smell was heavy of engine in both regards. To this point I have been committed to an inboard diesel for Charleston waters. Now not so sure. I would not want an outboard hanging off the back for many reasons. But I saw a Cape dory online tonight with a built-in outboard well in rear lazarette. This is starting to look like a good option. The well reduces or even alleviates cavitation problems. That and the sound reduction of a closed lid and affordability of outboard maintenance really has me wondering. Beyond the Dory are there other boats out there in excess of 25 feet with a built in well? I see James Baldwin modifying Alberg 30s to use a well... but are there other options? Thanks.
A friend of mine did that with his Bristol 27. You lose some room from the rear lazarette but otherwise seemed like a nice solution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-08-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,149
Thanks: 83
Thanked 234 Times in 226 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Rethinking inboard

There are several issues with well mounted outboards.. most are surmountable if you really want it...

The prop is still further aft and higher than an inboard install so while better than a transom outboard it's not 'the answer' to cavitation in waves.

Many well installs preclude steering the outboard, and if the well is aft of the rudder you lose a lot of maneuverability because you can't 'redirect' the propwash with the rudder.

Side mounted wells can sometimes interfere with full rudder travel, with obvious consequences (T Birds had to put limiting strops on tillers while motoring to prevent rudder from hitting the spinning prop)

To make it quiet, you need to close the hatch.. as you power ahead the stern wave can 'seal' the well, and some engines will actually run out of air.. so now you need to crack the hatch (so much for quiet) or you need to arrange alternate venting/air supply.

Many well designs preclude easily lifting the engine up while sailing, with it's attendant drag. The T-Bird 26 did allow this and even had a drop-in cover plate, but I wouldn't say it was easy to use. But in many cases lifting the engine clear doesn't happen (The Flying Tiger has a clever solution to this problem, and it's under the bridge deck so more or less equivalent to inboard)

I've seen some wells (Columbia 26 IIRC) that were right in the cockpit... noisy, splashy, smelly....

The biggest plus is that it gets rid of the unsightly outboard and bracket on the transom We owned a Viking 28, a very pretty C&C design, originally fitted with a lazarette well that had been removed and a bracket added.. I always hated the way the motor 'ruined' the lines.. great boat otherwise though.

So just some food for thought... btw with a good engine installation coupled with good maintenance there should be no significant fuel/engine odours below...
jrd22 and barefootnavigator like this.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-08-2013
Sabreman's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Yeocomico River, VA
Posts: 1,620
Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sabreman will become famous soon enough Sabreman will become famous soon enough
Re: Rethinking inboard

Having owned diesels and worked on them for over 30 years, my opinion is that they are far more reliable than outboards. Maintenance is simple and takes me about 2-3 hours a year. You can easily clean up a diesel and get rid of that oily smell. I suspect that the owner spilled fuel or oil.

IMO, outboards in a well do not work well (pun intended). As Faster says, they are too high and cavitate. That results in overheating and loss of power in a seaway. My father had an outboard in a Catalina 27 and it was a real mess in the Great Egg Harbor inlet; he got rid of the boat after 3 years. I worked for a boatyard that even installed a diesel in another Catalina 27 and got rid of the outboard. IMO, outboards for this size boat should be relegated to a racing sled.
chef2sail likes this.
__________________
Sabre 38 "Victoria"

Last edited by Sabreman; 01-09-2013 at 11:19 AM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 2,198
Thanks: 17
Thanked 78 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 8
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Some wells are quite small so cannot accept 4 stroke outboards so you are limited to older outboards.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-09-2013
Alex W's Avatar
no longer reading SailNet
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,308
Thanks: 2
Thanked 139 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Alex W is on a distinguished road
Re: Rethinking inboard

A local sailor with a Cape Dory 25 has complained that the well plus having the outboard behind the rudder makes the boat very hard to steer under motor power, especially at low speeds. Another friend with a Columbia 22 that has a well mounted inboard finds the whole thing very loud compared to transom mounted ones.

I had a transom mounted outboard with a 25" long shaft on a Catalina 25 and didn't have problems with prop cavitation even in 3 to 4' waves. I do know that this becomes a problem quickly as the boat gets any longer. I did like being able to steer with the outboard in tight quarters.

An inboard is nicer if you'll be using the boat a lot since it is quieter, has better fuel economy, and is easy to maintain. An outboard is nicer if you are on a tight budget because they are cheap to replace, don't require expensive props to avoid drag while under sail, and don't add a stuffing box and a couple of extra through hulls to the boat.

My Pearson 28-2 has a Yanmar 2GM20F with no smells. Having a diesel inboard doesn't mean that there should be a strong oil or diesel smell.
wdwright1967 likes this.
__________________
I'm no longer participating on SailNet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-09-2013
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,894
Thanks: 58
Thanked 55 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Rethinking inboard

Nothing beats a diesel inboard. If you smell engine or fuel you have a problem.

Outboards, especially 4 strokes will do for leaving & entering harbour but if you have any distance to go under power they suck big time, especially is there is any sea running. They also use a lot more fossilized liquids.
bljones likes this.
__________________
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-09-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 141
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
SkywalkerII is on a distinguished road
Re: Rethinking inboard

Ok, here's one that is sure to flop.

Put in a new Atomic 4 from Moyer Marine! Perfect size for boats in this range, benefits of inboard, no smell.

Really, I'm serious. I hate the smell of diesel and prefer the performance of an inboard.

Skywalker
T27 249
1966 Atomic 4 running lie a top.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-09-2013
chucklesR's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 10
chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough
Re: Rethinking inboard

If you have diesel smell you have a dirty engine.

There is no way I'd go with a outboard over a inboard on any sailboat that is being used as more than a over nighter.
I've ridden quiet a few 24-28 footers with outboards, that well is NOT quiet and usually needs to be open to both cool and provide air.

I've got a buddy with a Bristol 24 - he went through heck finding a motor large enough to push him, small enough to fit.
bljones likes this.
__________________
Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-09-2013
jameswilson29's Avatar
Senior Smart Aleck
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,149
Thanks: 33
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jameswilson29 is on a distinguished road
Re: Rethinking inboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbyham View Post
Beyond the Dory are there other boats out there in excess of 25 feet with a built in well?
Pearson 26, great starter boat!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 stroke inboard PeterSailer General Discussion (sailing related) 26 11-21-2013 12:47 PM
Newport 27 w/o inboard WheresTheLeak Boat Review and Purchase Forum 0 05-11-2010 01:44 PM
Ascaird of my first Inboard mattstamour Introduce Yourself 3 02-11-2009 09:01 PM
Outboard or inboard? ImASonOfaSailor Boat Review and Purchase Forum 12 03-06-2008 09:16 PM
Rethinking Sinking David Schaefer Seamanship Articles 0 08-03-2004 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:17 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.