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  #21  
Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

For $0, you can LOOK at the boat. (inside and outside). You can LOOK at the sails, and LOOK at the engine.

With a deposit, and a signed P&S agreement, you can start the engine and have the boat inspected by an accredited surveyor. Hatches can be opened, and stuff removed from the lockers. You can play with the electronics. However, unless you are a licensed captain, you CANNOT take the helm and putter about the marina, unless the owner offers you to do so. In my case, the owner brought the boat over to the sling, for the short haul and pressure wash.

After the closing, you can do anything that you want.
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  #22  
Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

James, owner/broker/seller doesn't matter. When you go to buy a car, you can get a test ride--but not for the expensive or limited production cars. The dealers don't like cleaning off the slobber, it makes the car harder to sell.

When you go to buy a boat, you don't get a test ride. It isn't a rental agency. No one is going to give you a $200 test ride, because they are not in the rental business and they have no insurance for that line of business. Not the owner, not the broker.

And that's forgetting the fact that they've not going to waste their time.

It just isn't done that way. Is everything negotiable? Sure. Try offering $2000 for the charter ride instead of $200, and you might get the boat for the whole weekend. And if they don't have insurance for charters, you're still not going to get it at any price, unless someone wants to play fast and loose.

That's how you take a test ride in a boat, you charter one. And the broker doesn't waste their time prepping and cleaning and re-stowing, close their office, or anything else.

An hour or two on a boat? All that tells you is whether it leaks and how the stereo works.
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

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Originally Posted by Ninefingers View Post
You must be able to learn something from a sea trial. I have no problem compensating someone for their time if I request a sea trial. I would think $200 would be appropriate for an hour on the water. I would hope that would be enough to pre-qualify me.
That hour on the water is another hour drive to the boat, probably 30 mins to prep for castoff and then another hour to rinse down and button her back up. Then drive an hour home.

Keep your $200. I would only spend 4.5 hours of my life, if I had reason to believe you were a serious buyer. Its a huge part of a work day, which may cost more. Or too much of a weekend.

The game is supply and demand. If you will only buy a boat that allows a pre-offer sea-trial, then you've defined a substantially smaller supply. That's okay, if its okay with you.
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

I don't think a Broker is an agent for the owner, any lawyers out there?
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  #25  
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Re: No Sea Trial

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Originally Posted by algee View Post
I don't think a Broker is an agent for the owner, any lawyers out there?
That is a good technical question. Typically, the broker can not commit on behalf of the owner, so they are not technically an agent. In standard contracts, they are often listed as an independent third party with their own rights and responsibilities.
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
That hour on the water is another hour drive to the boat, probably 30 mins to prep for castoff and then another hour to rinse down and button her back up. Then drive an hour home.

Keep your $200. I would only spend 4.5 hours of my life, if I had reason to believe you were a serious buyer. Its a huge part of a work day, which may cost more. Or too much of a weekend.

The game is supply and demand. If you will only buy a boat that allows a pre-offer sea-trial, then you've defined a substantially smaller supply. That's okay, if its okay with you.
I guess I was thinking more in lines of a private seller. Usually a time that is convenient to them can be arranged. Sort of a "let me know when your down at the boat next and I will make it work" sort of thing. What would be a reasonable amount for you to take me out on your boat?

Anyhow, I appreciate your opinions. Buying a boat is new to me. I have only owned fractions.

Edit again: You're boat is probably worth a fair chunk of change, and it's the size of a house, so I understand where you're coming from. I was thinking more in the line of an average 30 footer under private sale.

Last edited by Ninefingers; 01-14-2013 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
That is a good technical question. Typically, the broker can not commit on behalf of the owner, so they are not technically an agent. In standard contracts, they are often listed as an independent third party with their own rights and responsibilities.
Here is the definition of "Agent" from Black's Law Dictionary: "A person authorized by another (principal) to act for or in place of him; one intrusted with another's business." (Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. 1991).

A yacht broker is most certainly either an agent for the seller, an agent for the buyer, a dual agent, or, by contract, an independent contractor rendering limited, specific services in connection with a transaction and not an agent for either party, if allowed by statute. Although there are uniform laws on agency and partnership, state law will govern the licensing and duties of agents transacting business within the particular state.

As a buyer looking at boat listings, you should reasonably assume the listing broker is an agent of the seller until you discover otherwise.

Last edited by jameswilson29; 01-14-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013
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Re: No Sea Trial

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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
As a buyer looking at boat listings, you should reasonably assume the listing broker is an agent of the seller until you discover otherwise.
I would figure that this is self-evident.

And, again, this is not necessarily a bad thing.
A broker's job is 1. sell the boat. 2. Sell the boat for the highest dollar possible.
An effective broker will not focus on 2. to the detriment of 1.
Not all brokers are great, but the majority aren't wastrels, scam artists, thieves, grifters or general ne'er do wells.

Otherwise the profession would be much more tightly regulated...
like the legal profession.

(c'mon, I couldn't help it. )




I posit that the vast majority of brokered sales are satisfactory and hassle free. Few folks ever start a thread to give an attaboy to a broker who did his/her job well.

However, many folks will happily and loudly complain when the wheels fall off a deal, even if they are at fault, partially or completely, and, with relish, tear a strip off a broker. On every forum. Repeatedly.
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  #29  
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Re: No Sea Trial

My preference is to buy from a private seller, when possible. For this use Craigslist.org and sailboatlistings.com to find private sellers. I sold my boat fast on Sailboatlistings.com and can't imagine what a broker could have added other than cost.

I find that when a private seller is happy to take you out, it says a lot about his confidence in the condition of the boat.
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Re: No Sea Trial

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Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Here is the definition of "Agent" from Black's Law Dictionary: "A person authorized by another (principal) to act for or in place of him; one intrusted with another's business." (Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. 1991).

.....As a buyer looking at boat listings, you should reasonably assume the listing broker is an agent of the seller until you discover otherwise.
The bolded section is the point.

I've never known a broker that was authorized to act for or in place of the seller, so why would you assume they are an agent of the seller? They are the representative of the seller, they work for the seller, but they're not the seller's agent. They have no authority.
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