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Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Why I like a full keel

Jeff H,

In your post above, you've just repeated what you said before, that you once caught a line in a full keeler. No one has said that this is impossible and no one has said that you were lying that it happened, only that it is improbable and far more improbable with a full keel than in a typical fin keeler. As to why, I've already stated a few reasons why and I will not repeat myself ad nauseum as is so common in internet message boards.

As far as the damage question goes, I would concede that going aground, at speed, into a gently sloping reef would likely damage a skeg, or keel hung rudder before a spade. However in this situation, you also would have to contend with potential hull and keel damage of that same grounding on a fin keel, so I would say it's a wash.

What I wouldn't say was a wash is the likelihood of a catastrophic rudder failure of a spade. It's just simple engineering, two attachment points are better than one, especially when the one is at one end of a moment arm that is subject to lateral dynamic forces. That doesn't mean it's likely that one will fall off, I would say that it's very, very unlikely if it's a well designed system. But it doesn't matter how well designed a given spade rudder attachment system is, if you take that same system and put a second, reinforced attachment point on the bottom, it will be stronger, and infinitely less likely to fall off completely.

Still, I'm not saying I wouldn't go to sea with a spade rudder. I have, a few times, and I was never "paranoid" about it. But I wouldn't want you going to sea with the false sense of security that you have the most secure system of rudder attachment.
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Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Why I like a full keel

Placing the prop in close proximity to the keel seems to work to keep the prop from being fouled. I have a swing keel boat with a retractable spade rudder that draws less than 2 ft with everything up. Knowing that the owners would go in harm's way, the designer used a skeg to protect the prop in shallow water, but it also seems to be very effective in avoiding fouling from lobster and crab pot lines.

We sailed the boat home to Mystic from Clearwater Beach, FL. That trip was about 1700 miles and included the Chesapeake. We've since been to Maine twice, where it can be a challenge to avoid the lobster gear and we also have lobster pots in local waters. In the 17 years I've owned SeaScape, we've never snagged a line on the prop.

When we were having the boat commissioned in FL, I inquired about Spurs, but the yard manager told me I'd be wasting my money because of the skeg design. He was right.

That said, my experience verifies the claim that the typical full keeler would likely have next to zero problems with lines fouling the prop.

BTW, should I hit anything hard with my 3000 lb swing keel, which is fully retracted here, there would be some damage to the leading edge, but it would kick up to mitigate any other damage. (We could get into a whole other discussion on this category of keel!)
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Old 01-27-2013
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Re: Why I like a full keel

Jeff, I'm sorry but you appear to be the paranoid one here....it becomes more and more apparent as the thread goes on. You must not realize how silly it sounds to try and justify a statement like the one you made. Here off the Oregon coast during crab season (like now) I go sailing in crab pots so thick that it is just about impossible to avoid them. Last weekend I sailed over at least 2 of them. The crab pots here have two floats attached by a line about 10 long. I sailed between the two on one trap...so the line would have run under the keel literally scraping the bottom of the boat from stem to stern. No problem.
If I had been in anything with an exposed prop between keel and rudder I would have been in trouble.
Oh yes, and if I had wrapped a line, my prop is only about 2' below the water line... not directly under the boat which would necessitate a dive under the boat.

Are you just being obtuse?
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