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  #11  
Old 01-30-2013
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Mmmm....coffee. Nature's wonder drug. Going to look at it this weekend. Hope it is as good as it looks!
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

Quote:
Originally Posted by minnow1193 View Post
It is the keel/cb version. Anyone know the weight of the centerboard? Wondering how much of the ballast might be from the cb, or if it is mostly in the keel and the cb is just fiberglass or metal.
I don't know the exact weight of the CB but it is definitely < 200 lbs and not a big factor in the ballast of the boat. The ballast is in the stub keel that surrounds the CB trunk.

Like Rob Gallagher suggested, find out if the propulsion from the 7.5 HP engine is a sail drive or direct drive setup.
In either case, I suspect that the 7.5 HP engine is a one lunger (1 cylinder) so make sure that all your fillings are well set in your teeth!
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

The CB weighs around 65 lbs. All fiberglass. The ballast is about 1800lbs of lead epoxied into the keel.
I bought an 80' O'day 25 in Sept. Only got to sail it 5 times before Sandy but it sailed very well, even with the CB stuck in the up position. I paid $3800 for a very basic boat. Furling Jib and Hydraulic OB mount with 9.9hp electric start OB about the only add ons. No ladder, bimini, bilge pumps, one battery, etc but very sound.
This looks well cared for with well thought out add ons.
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2013
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Thanks Ward!

Caleb-- can you explain the differences between sail drive and direct drive? I am pretty unfamiliar with inboards.
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Old 01-30-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

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Originally Posted by minnow1193 View Post
.....can you explain the differences between sail drive and direct drive? I am pretty unfamiliar with inboards.
A 'saildrive' is an inboard engine coupled to what is essentially the lower end of an outboard drive unit.. the drive extends straight out of the boat at the rear of the engine.



Direct drive, or shaft and strut, has a propshaft extending aft from the gearbox, penetrating the hull at a shaft log/stuffing box, usually supported on an extended strut just ahead of the shaft mounted propellor.

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Old 01-30-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

Skipper of the Minnow,

Sure. Inboards are fairly unusual in a 25' boats.

Direct drive simply means that the engine connects directly to a straight shaft which exits through the stern of the boat - usually with a stuffing box 'gland'. Direct drive engines are almost always angled back at the stern so the shaft comes out of the hull at a slightly downward angle.

A sail drive unit would be more like the very bottom end of an outboard that is set into the hull such that the spinning force of the engine is geared first down and then back (astern). A sail drive unit will look something like the last 10" of an outboard lower unit and propeller sticking out of the bottom of the hull.

I suppose there are benefits to either set up. The sail drive takes up a little less interior space as it does not require a straight run back from the engine along the shaft. A direct drive set up is just simpler to maintain as there are extra gears in the sail drive unit that will need lubing.

I'll say that sail drive units are not considered that great as they stick down below the hull and can hit the bottom if you run aground. Direct drives are not immune to this sort of thing either but since they usually are tucked under the stern of the boat the worst that often happens is you chip a prop blade, bend the shaft, or worse, ruin the stern tube/cutless/stuffing box gland. None of these kinds of accident can't be fixed with the application of several more boat bucks!

I see that Faster beat me to it. The pictures make it much easier to understand.
Thanks Fastman.
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  #17  
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Re: I think I have found what I want

Sorry Caleb.... should've checked to see if you were watching....

I'd add just that saildrives generally rely on a bladder seal where they penetrate the hull, Volvo, for example, recommends these be changed every 6-8 years, IIRC... something I'd be willing to bet rarely gets done.
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Last edited by Faster; 01-30-2013 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

She really dose look like a nice boat, and she should be quite stiff in a blow with a bals/disp ratio of 44%. Make sure you hire a surveyer, with a swing keel you never know what kind of problems you might run in to. I have had a captiva 240 with a keel center board she was a great boat but a little tender until she hit 20 deg of heel then she stiffened right up. But like I said you need to maintain the the center board.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Sorry Caleb.... should've checked to see if you were watching....

I'd add just that saildrives generally rely on a bladder seal where they penetrate the hull, Volvo, for example, recommends these be changed every 6-8 years, IIRC... something I'd be willing to bet rarely gets done.
Faster, no reason to be sorry about anything. You are one of the reasons that this forum is such a great place (to sound a little like SmackDaddy!). I have noticed that you frequently answer newcomers questions with detail, respect and insight. Besides, the pictures you posted of sail drive vs. direct drive assemblies is worth a thousand words. I was too lazy to hunt down photos to show the difference but you were not.

So, is it the "bladder seal" that is most prone to failure on saildrives perhaps?
Every engine and drive train needs maintenance. It sounds like the saildrive needs a bit more frequent major maintenance (6 -8 years) than a traditional, old school direct drive assembly.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2013
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Re: I think I have found what I want

She looks like a great boat! When will you be looking at her? Is she your first?

My first boat was a 1984 Catalina 25 with a swing keel, which I bought it in October of 2011. The O'Day's are supposed to be a bit better made than the comparable Catalinas, so she certainly has a lot of potential.

If you haven't gone to see her yet, here is the process I use when looking at/for a boat. Take it for what it is - free advice from someone who has owned a boat for all of a year - but hopefully it will be helpful:

1) If she's a swing keel, inspect the lifting cable on the keel, if you can. Check for signs of wear in the cable itself. Look at how the winch is mounted. Does the winch move freely in both directions? Are all of the other mechanisms associated with the swing keel working properly, and not showing significant signs of wear? If you're new and she's your first boat, you may not think you know what signs of wear are. If you THINK you see wear, you probably do - take a picture and ask here about it.

2) Check the chainplates - chainplates are notorious for leaks. If you're not sure what the chainplates are, they are the things to which the shrouds (the stainless steel cables on the sides of the mast that keep it upright) are attached. On most boats, the chainplates pass through the deck, and are attached to the hull, or to a bulkhead or knee, inside the cabin. I'm shopping for a new boat (long story) and between my last round of shopping and this time, I've been aboard quite a few older boats. The problem with the chain plates is that when they leak, the water runs down the chainplate. The chainplates are typically attached to a piece of wood (typically fairly thick plywood that is, in turn, attached to the hull). If the wood gets wet frequently (it doesn't rain in that part of Florida, right?), it will deteriorate. What can happen, is the forces on the mast can cause the chain plate to pull free from the wood, and in some cases, rip up through the deck. Even if that doesn't happen, you still have a chance of the mast being bent, or even broken. So, inspect the bulkhead or other area where the chainplates attach. I was aboard a boat recently that was quite pretty, and the interior looked to have been well maintained. However, upon close inspection, I saw that a good bit of the forward bulkhead was delaminating, warped, and rotten. That stuff can be fixed, but it will set you back a lot of hours (if you're a DIY'er) and/or a good chunk of cash.

3) Inspect the standing rigging and lifelines - look for places where the stainless steel wires are starting to rust/corrode, especially where some of the strands have broken. In my very limited experience, this seems more prevalent around higher stress areas, like near fittings, but a careful glance over the rigging is a good idea. The rigging is an important structural and safety feature, so be sure to look at it carefully.

4) Walk around on the deck, looking/feeling for soft spots - I had been aboard 2 or 3 boats early in my search, and grew up around power boats. I had heard about soft spots, but didn't understand what that meant, or how I might find it. Then I was aboard a boat that had some serious soft spots. Most of the cockpit felt like I was walking on a sponge, as did parts of the cabin. It's hard to describe, but you'll know it when you feel it. Check any areas where anything penetrates or is attached to the deck, especially horizontal surfaces. That includes the area around the chainplates. Step on either side of the chainplate and bounce a bit. Tap the area with your fingers, or a key or other object. Does it feel/sound different than the area a few inches away? If so, there may be leakage. Leakage/wet core doesn't have to be a deal killer, but you need to understand where the leaks are, their scope, and what they mean to the boat. Also wiggle the pulpit and stanchions - if the bases seem loose, they MAY just need to be rebedded and tightened. But there may be water penetration there, too. If it seems like the core is soft in that area, be sure to check inside the boat for corresponding leaks.

5) Look for other signs of leaks - look at any woodwork or metal around the windows and companionway; is there staining or unusual oxidation? If so, that could be a sign that there is, or was, a leak. In my opinion, all boats leak a bit (some here swear their boats are bone dry, but I haven't seen a boat yet that didn't have a LITTLE water in the bilge). Leaky windows can lead to rot in the core around the windows, and it can be a lot of work to fix everything. Would that stop me from buying? No.

6) Check the engine - is it clean? If so, that's either a sign that the seller is trying to hide something and cleaned it, or the seller is meticulous. If you see lots of rust or corrosion, to me that's a sign that the engine may be in worse shape than you might expect. Have the seller start it for you, and let it run for a while, then inspect it again. Is there a lot of soot in the engine compartment? Is there any oil, grease, or fuel in the bilge in that part of the boat?

7) Check the sails - are the main and jib in good shape? Replacing them can be a significant expense. You may be able to have them recut if they are stretched out, and can be sent to someone like SailCare to be "stiffened", but if they have holes, or have been repaired numerous times, you'll need to note this. Also, check the thread near the head of the main. That area frequently "peeks" out of any cover, and sees the most UV light. UV can degrade the thread that holds the sail together. If you pick at the thread a bit (gently, the boat isn't yours yet) and see that it frays or comes unstitched, you can expect to at least have to touch up the thread in that area. If you aren't a seamstress/tailor, and don't want to learn, be sure to take that cost into account.

8) Check all the winches and the furler - does everything turn properly and easily (or, in the case of the winch, does it NOT turn when it shouldn't)?

9) Check the electronics - do the lights all work, especially the ones in the mast? Does the radio work? How about the depth sounder and GPS (if there is one)?

10) If its important to you, test the fresh water system - how hard/easy is it to get the water to pump?

I'm sure I missed a few things, but these are all easy things that you can check out yourself. If, after all that's done, you are still comfortable with the boat - you're buying a 33 year old boat, after all, so there WILL be issues - then that's great, and its time to bring in a professional surveyor. But if you hit big soft spots, holes in the fiberglass (we're seeing a lot of that because of Hurricane Sandy), delaminating bulkeads, or other, serious problems, unless you are willing to invest in their repair, you might want to consider saving the surveyor's fees and simply looking at another boat.
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Last edited by jimgo; 01-31-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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