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  #51  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

Copied this from your other thread since it is more on topic in this one:
Quote:
Not to change topics, but why is everyone, including my friends and family who I show the boats I am looking at so in favour of the Ranger? I like it, don;t get me wrong, but what are others seeing that I am not? Are they just really good boats? Are they super hardy? I realized that if I trust my boat, I love to sail in high(ish) winds, say 15-25 knots.
The photos of the Ranger show that the buyer cares enough to have cleaned up a little bit before taking the photos. Most of the other boats that you are looking at have interior photos where the boat is just filled with trash. I'm guessing that is why your friends and family get excited about it. Look at the photos side by side with the Catalina 27 (which is cleaner than some of the boats that you've considered) and it is easy to see.

I like it out of everything listed because it appears to be the combination of the best equipped and best maintained. New clean cushions and outboard will also make it easiest to sell at the end of your trip. I have a feeling that the boat would have sold weeks ago if it were listed in Seattle instead of Port Townsend.

Quality wise the Ranger should be at least as good as anything else that you are looking at and has a reputation for sailing really well. Since you have extra time this week you could watch the B-movie "The Dove" (it is free on Netflix) if you want to see one in action. This movie is based on a true story about a teenager sailing circumnavigating in the 60s. In the real world the sailor used a Cal 24, but in the film they used a Ranger 23.

Ultimately what is going to matter on all of these is how well they've been taken care of. The fact that the Ranger owners both to keep it washed, the interior tidy, and can list recent upgrades/work shows that it was likely well loved and maintained in mechanical ways too. You can't know until you inspect it though.

The US 25 looks like a good deal, but it also looks like a 3/4 done project (the interior walls are raw fiberglass for instance). Those boats always make me wonder what happened, why is it being sold? It appears to be being sold at a major loss too, which again makes me wonder why (and why hasn't it sold yet)? It could be something fine where the seller needs the money and can't pay for moorage anymore. It could be something bad like they and most people who've looked at the boat have found a fundemental flaw and they are just trying to dump it while they can.
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  #52  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
The US 25 looks like a good deal, but it also looks like a 3/4 done project (the interior walls are raw fiberglass for instance). Those boats always make me wonder what happened, why is it being sold? It appears to be being sold at a major loss too, which again makes me wonder why (and why hasn't it sold yet)? It could be something fine where the seller needs the money and can't pay for moorage anymore. It could be something bad like they and most people who've looked at the boat have found a fundemental flaw and they are just trying to dump it while they can.
The US25 is certainly at a good price point, these boats are not as fast as they look like they should be, IIRC the bulkheads are not fully (if at all) tabbed in and the cockpits are teeny tiny.. racing with 3 aboard was very tight.

The fact that the hull sides (ceilings) below are bare is probably a good thing. The boats were originally 'carpeted' and in all likelihood the ports and stanchions leaked and the stuff got wet/rotten/moldy... at that price and as a project it's kind of attractive to have the 'demolition' stage mostly done. I imagine the cutout liner around the new ports is part of the port replacement, unfortunately that's going to take some imagination to clean up.

Agree with Alex (and others) that of all those boats the Ranger will be the better sailer, (even though both it and the US25 are Gary Mull designs) with the exception of the Santana 27 which looks a sweet boat and will have a bit more room, and speed, I'd think.
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  #53  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

I would still check out the 24ft Kent ranger of Craigslist. The price is certainly right and they are good boats
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  #54  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

You should read the Practical Sailor review for the Ranger 23. It tells you the common weak points and gives you a lot of history and design intentions for this boat.

In comparing the US 25 and Ranger 23 (just the details, not these particular boats), this is what jumps out at me:
* US 25 is full-on IOR, Ranger 23 isn't. Win: Ranger
* Interior space: US 25 is 18" longer and 1" wider. This gives it just enough room for an enclosed head. Win: US 25
* Likely comfort: Ranger 23 B/D is 44%, it carries a lot of weight in it's keel. The US 25 is 33%. That'll make the Ranger feel stiffer and easier to single hand (when you don't have a crew to sit on the weather rail). Win for your purposes: Ranger
* SA/D is pretty much a tie.
* Sail plan is more balanced on the Ranger (this goes back to the IOR aspect of the US 25). The smaller jib will be easier to handle and when the wind picks up you can reef the main first. Win: Ranger
* Construction quality: read the PS review. The Ranger 23 was built with no limitations from the manufacturer on build quality from a higher end production builder. The US 25 was built by a budget motor boat company experimenting with sailboats. Win: Ranger

I think that the US 25 in Tacoma is a attractive price for a boat with recent work and worth looking at primarily for that reason. However I think it would be a mistake to see that boat without looking at the Ranger as well (and the Santana 27, though I don't see it on CL anymore). PT and Tacoma are only 1.5 hours apart.
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  #55  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

Good responses. Thank you.

-stupid practical sailor, trying to make me pay, don't they realize this is the internet?

-the Santana is still listed, on the 18th, they just work it strange.

-yes, I think after my trip is done, assuming I leave the area, I'll bring the boat to Seattle to sell.

-I don't mind a small cockpit, since I'll singlehand mostly, and aren't small ones better in a pooping?

-it not having design compromises to fit rules, and just being built to sail is good. You are right, I have no rail meat.

-To me, the santana looks a little trashed, in the last picture it has a walmart tarp for a sail cover, and in the interior is has weird cushions, and towels on the galley, probably to absorb all the water coming down the chainplates !!

You guys should go to Hawai'i some time and see what a sailboat sells for there, your definition of 'trashed' would change very quickly. that's why it's hard for me to see the trees in the forest, they all look good to me. I want a good deal as much as everyone else, but I don't mind getting the Ranger for double for the reasons you listed.

-i still like the Tanzer. any more thoughts on the Tanzer?

-I'm glad I didn't leave earlier this week, since I really am in no hurry, am having fun in Eugene, and the weather turned nasty, and the weather is only getting better as we move into spring, but mostly after the two boats I wanted, the Ranger and the Tanzer both had people looking at them, and they didn't sell, it made me realize that it really is a buyer's market and I should relax and take my time and look, and the boat I want will probably still be there. They are NOT selling quick. Maybe if they are in SEATTLE with a transferable slip, but otherwise no, the farther out the worse too.

Last edited by northoceanbeach; 03-21-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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  #56  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

I don't like Tanzer 22s. I've never looked closely at the 7.5 (even though a 7.5 or 26 is in a slip next to mine). I'm biased by seeing 22s. They don't seem very well built to me.

For sailing and one month sailing-oriented lifestyle before kicking off a big trip I'd rather be in Port Townsend than Seattle, and I'd rather be in Seattle than Tacoma.

The weather has been a lot better than the forecast predicted. Right now it's sunny and breezy.

I have no problem with paying the small subscription rate to Pratical Sailor. They have good content and it's saved me more than what I pay to subscribe. Their boat review archive is pretty helpful.
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  #57  
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

Odd.... Tanzer's generally have a pretty good rep for sailing ability and construction... My problem with them is primarily aesthetic, I don't think they are very pretty boats.
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  #58  
Old 03-21-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

There are 3 on the dock with my old Catalina 25. This is an unusual number since there are 16 boats there total, all under 25', mostly sailboats. It is doubly unusual that this is Seattle and none of them are San Juan 24s.

One of the Tanzer 22s is getting new windows and the cabin sides appear to basically be gelcoat over 3/8" plywood with almost no glass on either side. He's had other problems too that I don't remember the details of. The other two Tanzer 22s are mostly ignored (I've never seen anyone at one of them, the other guy tries to sell his about twice a year and otherwise doesn't visit it). Plus they are really ugly.

Practical Sailor seems to think that they are better built than I do, so maybe my impressions are out of line.
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  #59  
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

Oh, no, no. I was just kidding about practical sailor. I know it's worth it, I just clicked on it and was surprised that's all. Crap, if I make to many joke on here about being cheap though, people will get the wrong idea and think I'm sitting at the library, wearing a potato sack.
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  #60  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Sailboat under $5000 for Puget Sound

How's the boat shopping? It's a nice weekend for it, hopefully that doesn't bring out too much competition for you.

Edit: just saw this on CL:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/3699281432.html

Those are really fun boats to sail. It could be a major project, or it could be awesome. They normally sell for more like $15-17k (assuming the engine isn't a big project).
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Last edited by Alex W; 03-23-2013 at 10:11 PM.
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