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post #11 of 24 Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

Small points: Winter storage, will they require the mast be unstepped? (Or, do you prefer to unstep it, and then have to pay to lower & raise it again?) Bottom pressure washed? Extra costs to haul and launch? And who supplies and pays for the jackstands, and decides how many is enough? Can you bottom paint it before launch? Or do you have to buy their paint and use their labor as well?
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-14-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

Hey hellosailor,

Extra details. Sweet! Thanks! I'll put that on my ask list when I interview the marina.

Since you seem to be good at specifics, what SPECIFIC maintenance tasks are annual events? I'm guessing the marina's local shop has an all-inclusive rate for regular maintenance, but I wanted to understand the scope.

Others have commented that the insurance and/or survey may be anywhere within a range of price. That's ok. I tend to estimate price in the upper half of the range somewhere so if I do get surprised it'll be a pleasant one.

Cheers!

G
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

Survey will be closer to $800, usually they charge in the $20-$25 per foot range. If you have to hire a separate rigger to survey the rigging then that'll be probably near $300, they charge by the hour usually. I'd say realistically $200 for cleaning stuff.

The biggest surprise with my $15k buy was and registration fees with DMV at 10%, but I have no clue what Canada does for that.

Point being on my $15k purchase, I shoveled out an additional $4000 in a week on my credit card just for all the other stuff, mostly things you already brought up or others mentioned (immediate maintenance, haul outs, random small fixes)

Smart of you to think of it from accounting stand points and have a buffer/allowance for unexpected costs.

Good luck it's exciting!

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post #14 of 24 Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

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Originally Posted by mysterybee View Post
Hi Sloop!

I've seen that figure before, and I'm prepared to work with it if all else fails, but at best it represents a vague number. What I'm trying to do is hammer down fixed costs.

- Insurance, marina costs, winter wrap, basic maintenance... these things are predictable, annual expenses that I'd like to identify.
- Transfer fees, surveys and such are one-time purchase costs that I'd like to identify.
- Longer term maintenance costs like new sails depend largely on rate of use, conditions and quality of care. If I'm not out there racing every Wednesday evening, I don't think it'd be appropriate to anticipate the same rate of spending.

Anyway, I've had another talk with the Marina and narrowed down their costs: $84 / ft for the slip, haulout, launch, pumpout and hydro. $4 / sq ft for winter storage. (she conveniently failed to mention that part the first time we spoke) That works out roughly to $4k + tax per year for a 37 foot boat.

Specifics are good. I like specifics.
Generalities are for people who aren't married to accountants.
I think you're starting to see why a generalized figure is used - there are SO many little things that lots of them get overlooked and nothing on a 35' boat costs less than a boat dime ($100).

Unless you're a professional estimator, using a rule of thumb will probably prove to be a more realistic total.

Does the boat have charts? $20 a pop, charting tools? easy $50, hoses need replacing? $$$ per foot, light fixture dead? $50 on up each.

If you put a LOT of planning in you might get your initial expenditure pretty close but long term? Use the generalized figure.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-14-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

Hi Sloop,

Since you brought it up, yes I am a professional project manager, so research and planning are part of my DNA. As I mentioned earlier, while I want to be aware of one-off costs, they are not my primary concern. I want to familiarize myself with the consistent, predictable expenditures that I will be able to expect on an annual basis.

I realize not everyone shares my enthusiasm for detail management, but I was hoping I could find one or two people who could help me put together a respectable spreadsheet.
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

MB... another huge factor in actual costs is your desire/ability to do things yourself. Paying marine tradesmen $75-100/hr adds to the overall picture in a hurry.

We do most things ourselves, and that's a considerable savings over time. Occasionally it's true we may have been better off hiring a pro, but all in all we've been satisfied with most of the work we took on ourselves. There is the occasional 'do I want to do that'.. for example though my wife is a very accomplished seamstress she elected to hire out the upholstery. It didn't hurt that we found a great vendor/supplier at a good price.

Doing as much as you can will make you comfortably familiar with the boat too.....
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Last edited by Faster; 03-14-2013 at 10:08 PM.
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-14-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

A survey from a SAMS Accredited Surveyor in Southern Ontario will cost $17.00/ft plus HST. There are a couple of surveyors around who will do it for $9.00/ft and they are worth every penny

Sea trials are an additional cost of about $80.00 per hr. if you want the surveyor to come along.

You will also have to pay the cost of the lift (approx. $500.00 depending on which marina) if the boat is in water.

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post #18 of 24 Old 03-15-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

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A similar thing used to happen to Jaguars - the low buy in deceived people into thinking they could afford it.
Reminds me of a radio talk-show about cars that I heard several years back. Caller was thinking about buying a Jaguar, but he had heard that they needed a lot of maintenance, and would nickel and dime you to death. Was asking the host if that was true.

Host said, "Absolutely not true. A Jaguar will definitely not nickel and dime you to death. When a Jaguar reaches into your pocket it is going to be looking for 50's and 100's, not nickels and dimes."

Same thing applies to boats. A boat will never nickel and dime you to death.
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-15-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

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We do most things ourselves, and that's a considerable savings over time. Occasionally it's true we may have been better off hiring a pro, but all in all we've been satisfied with most of the work we took on ourselves.
Hi Faster,

This is a bit off-topic but it is something else I've been interested in. What, specifically, do you do yourself? I've done very minor electrical/plumbing/carpentry work around the house, but I'd be reluctant to start taking a boat motor apart. Can you give me some examples of tasks you trusted yourself to do right away vs those that you wanted to watch a professional do first before taking it on?

I'm still pricing yacht clubs/marinas in the area, but given the lack of availability, I may find my decision already made for me. Also, I'm not clear on the need for de-stepping the mast. Is it absolutely necessary or is it a matter of personal preference?

Oh, and I think I may need a link to a boat re-naming ceremony. If I get stuck with something called "Air Supply" I may need to get my stomach pumped.

Cheers!

G
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-15-2013
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Re: Boat Buying Costs

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Hi Faster,

This is a bit off-topic but it is something else I've been interested in. What, specifically, do you do yourself? ........
Cheers!

G
I've been a DIYer pretty well all my life.. built my first runabout at 16 years old, took on a full-on kitchen remodel in my 20s both with guidance from my Dad. Rebuilt car engines, painted a couple of cars in my youth, some boats later on.

We've also never had a lot of free spending money so in many cases our DIY projects were a matter of necessity over desire. And most of this in the days before the 'internet instruction manual' era.

So to be specific, over the years we've swapped engines, rebuilt an engine, modified interior layouts, rebuilt structural sections, installed all our upgrades and added hardware, top-to-bottom Awlgrip repaint, we do all the routine annual maintenance - bottom paint, prop servicing, zincs etc, filter and oil changes, water pump service/replacement etc.

Canvas work, upholstery, rigging components, sails, SS fabrication, welding etc we've left to the pros.

It's not for everyone but I'd suspect that there are plenty of us here in more or less the same space. And there's a tradeoff.. We repainted a 40 footer topsides and deck, added an anchor locker and cockpit lazarette access prior to painting the deck and painted the rig.. a 4-6 week project and it cost us about $6K all up.. the same job by a pro would have run into probably $15-20K so we 'saved' a bundle.. did it look as good as the pro would have done? Not a chance..
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