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  #11  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

I was a "gotta buy new" kind of guy. Then I got the bug to get out on the water, and knew that wasn't gonna happen in a new boat. Once I got over that, I've been happy. Not necessarily right at this moment (engine issues) but most of the time. The big thing to understand is that EVERY boat needs maintenance. Yes, a new boat will come with a warranty for some of the stuff. But what happens when you're nowhere near an authorized dealer/service facility? As my step-father put it (he owned several powerboats when I was a kid, and is largely responsible for my enjoyment of boating), if you're lucky, a new boat buys you about 2 years, then you're doing the same maintenance as everyone else. You have to calculate the ROI on that, and decide if its worth it to you. If you heed the wise advice above and buy the boat a year in advance to practice on it and mold it to your liking, you're only going to have 1 year's worth of "maintenance free" time left. Personally, I think it's better (and again, this is just my opinion) to go with a new-ish boat that you can afford, and spend the time/money fixing that up the way you want it. In the end, your out-of-pocket costs may be significantly less, and you'll have a boat that's set up the way you want, not the way the builder thought it should be set up, with a few additions by you.

Something to keep in mind - we all are pulling for you, and many of us are jealous! You have your reasons for wanting to do what you want to do; we're offering different points of view as a sanity check, or a way of achieving your goal even faster, should you so desire.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Within the next 5 years I want to be on a blue water capable boat circumnavigating. In the meantime, I am READING A TON and taking copious notes.

I grew up sailing and racing small dinghies and every once in a while i'll rent a boat in CA for the weekend for some solo sailing just to keep the mind fresh. I would like to eventually spend a season crewing/deliveries to help build my "wants" lists and learn what I do and don't like in particular designs.

For those of you that have bought new boats, I was wondering if you had any thoughts about what you had the builder install vs what you decided to install yourself.

Was this decision a monetary one (cheaper to do it yourself)? An experienced based decision (I want to know my boat better)? Other?

If you could do it over again, what else would you have asked the builder to take care of?


On a side note, I'd like to thank all the contributions made day in and day out by soooo many. You're not just helping other boater owners; you're helping the sport and the lifestyle! Thank you!

paul

Paul,

Except for the Tayana 42, all of my boats have been new.

There are some things that are really better installed at the factory if you can. The generator (diesel) is one. You might also consider them installing your air conditioner... maybe.

I installed my solar, charging system, battery system, inverter, some of my electronics, heads, and other comfort items.

My suggestion, as a cruiser, is that you do what you can yourself. You will not necessarily save money. In fact, depending on your boat, it may cost you more money. But you can see how it goes in and where you drill your holes, what cabinets you take out, where the runs are, etc. Your factory will not necessarily care if they take out a whole cabinet for a duct run, whereas you will want to maximize your cabinetry as much as possible, or you might want a tank there and don't want that run through that spot. They cannot read your mind (and most of them may not care).

I cannot stress how important it is when cruising to know where your runs are for everything. Otherwise, when something breaks, you are scrambling to find where it is run... not to mention what is broken. Make sense? THis is especially true with the electronics which love to screw up and get outdated.

The generator is just such a bulky and multi-man job, its is something we opted to have done. And the factory at times can put it in cheaper than what you can after-market it for because they already have the boat apart. Do be careful though that when you have factory installed items, THEY CAN STILL COME BACK OUT! Very important. You will eventually replace it all or might want to.

My experiences.

Brian
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Last edited by Cruisingdad; 04-15-2013 at 10:31 AM.
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
bljones,

by all means that was a great post. thank you for the insight.

i heavily lean towards a new boat because...i want new systems, newer hull designs (aluminum w/ lifting keel is nearing the list's top...quickly) as well. i understand the downside is the lack of it being thoroughly tested but the counter weight is i can relatively expect lower maintenance costs (& time). i place a heavy weight on maintenance because i am wise enough to know boats are A LOT OF MAINTENANCE....and then there's the other side of the equation: ME! I don't know if I'll enjoy doing ALL the maintenance. Likely will but I know me....better than most. (I'm not afraid to take the front of an engine off and replace all belts, timing belt, etc....but it mayyyyy sit awhile before I do it...if you know what I mean.)

thanks for the input!
Just so ya know, a brand new boat is LOADED with problems. The difference is that someone else fixes it. But don't make the mistake of thinking because you buy new, it is like a car, and everything is good for 5-10 years. Instead, you will be facing many failures of equipment (unless you are very lucky) because everything that is going to break loves to break the first 30-60 days.

The positive is that when you buys new, you know how everything went in, what was used, and when you get the kinks worked out, you should be good to go for a while. No previous owner issues!!!

My experience, and the experience of most of the other new boat buyers I know.

Brian
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2013
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Paul,

Except for the Tayana 42, all of my boats have been new.

There are some things that are really better installed at the factory if you can. The generator (diesel) is one. You might also consider them installing your air conditioner... maybe.

I installed my solar, charging system, battery system, inverter, some of my electronics, heads, and other comfort items.

My suggestion, as a cruiser, is that you do what you can yourself. You will not necessarily save money. In fact, depending on your boat, it may cost you more money. But you can see how it goes in and where you drill your holes, what cabinets you take out, where the runs are, etc. Your factory will not necessarily care if they take out a whole cabinet for a duct run, whereas you will want to maximize your cabinetry as much as possible, or you might want a tank there and don't want that run through that spot. They cannot read your mind (and most of them may not care).

I cannot stress how important it is when cruising to know where your runs are for everything. Otherwise, when something breaks, you are scrambling to find where it is run... not to mention what is broken. Make sense? THis is especially true with the electronics which love to screw up and get outdated.

The generator is just such a bulky and multi-man job, its is something we opted to have done. And the factory at times can put it in cheaper than what you can after-market it for because they already have the boat apart. Do be careful though that when you have factory installed items, THEY CAN STILL COME BACK OUT! Very important. You will eventually replace it all or might want to.

My experiences.

Brian
Brian,

Thanks a bunch! That's the type of info I was looking for. I couldn't agree more about knowing where the runs are and there is a definite benefit to installing items yourself in terms of knowledge.

One thing that seems missed by many boat builders is the idea that at some point someone is going to be servicing what they've installed....and it may happen in the middle of nowhere. I wish builders considered this more in their assembly.

Thanks again!
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Just so ya know, a brand new boat is LOADED with problems. The difference is that someone else fixes it. But don't make the mistake of thinking because you buy new, it is like a car, and everything is good for 5-10 years. Instead, you will be facing many failures of equipment (unless you are very lucky) because everything that is going to break loves to break the first 30-60 days.

The positive is that when you buys new, you know how everything went in, what was used, and when you get the kinks worked out, you should be good to go for a while. No previous owner issues!!!

My experience, and the experience of most of the other new boat buyers I know.

Brian
Yes, Brian. I agree. I'm not operating under those pretenses. I understand it's maintenance from Day 1. Likely less over the first x number of years .... is what I'm aiming for.
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Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

Quote:
Originally Posted by opc11 View Post
Yes, Brian. I agree. I'm not operating under those pretenses. I understand it's maintenance from Day 1. Likely less over the first x number of years .... is what I'm aiming for.
That is a realistic expectation.

One of the reasons I liked Valiant (no longer building boats), is that they built the hull and top, then started adding systems. It was built from the outside in, not the other way around. To the best of my knowledge, no production boat does this in any way. Too expensive. Now in all fairness to Catalina, they do a pretty good job of everything that goes in can come back out after put together. That said, there are still difficulties I have encountered. However, these difficulties are not specific to Benehuntalinas. One of my favorite stories was actually a Taswell and another a Panda! I was having dinner two nights ago with another couple on a Bene that tried to remove their water tank. It was leaking. Got it to the companionway, only to find out it was about an inch too wide to go out. Oops. I am not beating up Benes. I am merely using them as a recent example of serviceability and why it is important. I am sure Catalina and Hunter have had similar issues, as have other high-end builders. All the more important to take a thorough look at the boat you are purchasing with the floorboards up and a tape measure.

Brian
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  #17  
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

RE: attaching the deck before building the interior

That's an interesting point. I would think that would make it more difficult to build but you are certainly guaranteed that everything will fit through the companionway.

I'm leaning towards an aluminum hull with variable draft after doing a ton of reading. It seems the negativity regarding corrosion is greatly misplaced if the boat is properly cared for. Also, I would likely avoid paint between the waterline and deck. It seems to be a real PITA as well.

In any event, I would like to intimately follow the boat's build.
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Old 04-16-2013
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

WATERMAKER
REFRIGERATION
GENERATOR
MAIN ENGINE ALTERNATOR

I am in my 11th year as a liveaboard cruiser and those are the things that you hear people looking for help with on the morning radio nets.

I would not care who fitted them but it would be worth your while to be able to diagnose and fix common faults in those things. Don't just buy the spare bits; fit them and check that it still works, keep the tools you needed. Keep the bits you removed as spares, you KNOW they fit.

I guess you are looking at the Ovni range, the 445 is just right for a cruising couple IMHO and just maybe the bigger one would be OK too.
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

I decided I wanted to do the N.A and S.P. gyres ~10y ago. (Think doing the clock is more a theoretical goal then seeing the world. But started with that goal (around the world) before doing research and listening to folks. However, I love my wife and carry my reponsibilities to my kids and parents in my heart. I have had one boat or another over a 30+yr span and have learned to accept my limitations. Having my wife have
enough water for a shower
warmth and cooling as environment demands
space to get away from each other for quiet moments ( amazes me we have never a a fight yet but each of us sometimes need "space")
etc.
So the creature comforts mean she will view world cruising as a adventure not camping on the water. It also means no hardship to stay in a region for some months if it is interesting to us.
Yes carry at least two spares for everything and a virtual tool shop but talk to your S.O. see what she/he needs to live aboard and how they want to liveaboard. Then look at your finances. Then look at boats. I went with a semicustom boat. It was the first new boat I ever owned. Everything from the frig openning from above and well as in front or having manifolds to limit throu hulls or the placement of hand holds or a thousand little details that will make life aboard a delight for a six footer and a 4'10" soulmate was incorporated. I projected what our physical capabilities will be in 10-15yrs and designed accordingly. I thought and discussed with my wife where we would be likely to go. I plumbed for a spendide and a watermaker but will only put them in when need demands. have no deck canvas with a hard dodger and hard bimini. Each will make decisions reflecting their needs and past expriences.
Before building the boat I knew economically it was unwise. But this is my life's dream and now my wife's. Screw those who view life as an accounting or business school exercise. Still, be solicidous of your s.o. Don't put them in any discomfort or stress that would strain your relationship. Don't build or buy a boat you can't run
by yourself
when everthing breaks
that doesn't make your heart skip a beat as you row your dinghy away from her
Faster and Cruisingdad like this.
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Re: Wish I Had The Boat Builder/Dealer Do It!

if aluminum and variable draft look at the ovnis, boreal, and K+M
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