Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat. - Page 5 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree19Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 04-30-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
captain conrad is on a distinguished road
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

If you love the boat buy it! Get fixed and sail it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #42  
Old 05-01-2013
PBzeer's Avatar
Wandering Aimlessly
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cruising
Posts: 20,687
Thanks: 0
Thanked 89 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 15
PBzeer has a spectacular aura about PBzeer has a spectacular aura about PBzeer has a spectacular aura about
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

I'll put in another word for the Pearson 28-2. It was on my short list for a coastal cruising liveaboard.
__________________
John
Ontario 32 - Aria

Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love.
JCP


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Website & Blog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #43  
Old 05-01-2013
jimgo's Avatar
Asleep at the wheel
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,012
Thanks: 71
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 4
jimgo is on a distinguished road
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

In addition to Craigslist, check out sailboatlistings.com, SailingTexas.com, and Yachtworld. You might also find some luck with BoatsFSBO, but I found that difficult to use.

For basic info on the boats that you find, check out sailboatdata.com. SailingTexas's site also has great archived pictures of various models, so you can get a sense of what they look like before you head out (it's amazing how many sale ads don't include pictures!!!).
__________________
- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
1980 Allmand 31
1975 Albacore 15


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #44  
Old 05-01-2013
bigdogandy's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 410
Thanks: 7
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 7
bigdogandy is on a distinguished road
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Andy, the OP said they weren't really handy, that's why I suggested something like the C27. 20-30 years newer than the Irwin, there are lots of them out there, lots of information on them on the web, the factory still supplies all the original parts, there's an active owners group and third party vendors that specialize in these boats.

Taken together that smooths the path for a new sailor and makes life a little easier.
Good points Jim. For a new sailor limiting the number of issues that need fixing before he can enjoy sailing is a plus. I was thinking more about the OPs affection for the looks of the CD......some times older boats when well kept or recently refit can be as trouble free as newer ones with less care and attention.

Emcentar - your situation is similar to mine about 10 years ago. I hadn't sailed in 20 or more years, but found myself living in Key Largo and jonesing to get out on the water again. I ended up with a 25' fixer upper and enjoyed putzing around on it, but it didn't take long before the costs of fixing broken stuff and adding amenities that were missing put me at the point where I could have bought a turnkey boat the same size or bigger and spent more time actually sailing. If I were you I'd focus on getting a boat in as good shape as you can find.

I wish I had known about Sailnet and the great advice you can get here back then!
__________________
Andy
Key Largo
S/V Everlasting Moon
1981 Endeavour 32

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Be joyful though you have considered all the facts.
- Wendell Berry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #45  
Old 05-01-2013
emcentar's Avatar
Advanced beginner
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 264
Thanks: 17
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 6
emcentar is on a distinguished road
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

Thanks everyone for all the advice!

One more question - the most frequent advice I hear for first-time buyers to find a used boat in as nice as condition as you can in your price range. But what's a good strategy for locating these boats? I'm looking at all the online listings, but it can be tough to tell anything from the picture other than how clean they kept their boat. And there's a lot of boats that look like they have sat on the hard for a while - bad sign? What are the good signs to help me winnow down to the boats worth spending my Saturday out checking them out?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #46  
Old 05-01-2013
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,338
Thanks: 88
Thanked 242 Times in 233 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

First it's ALWAYS worth spending a Saturday checking out boats...

Online hunting is a good start, but be aware that there's no way to know when those pics were taken, so even that's just a starting point.

Local CL listings seem to be more the norm for small to midsized boats, with the advantage that they are usually not too far away to look at.

Look for something clean, no immediate nasty 'smell' when you step below (but most older boats have some residual odor - mold and rot smells are indicators of problems. Fuel smells can usually be tracked down but could indicate a weeping tank.. not good.

Clean bilges and cubbies are indicative of good care - a clean engine area the same.

Generally I think you'll get a 'good' feeling when it's close to being right.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #47  
Old 05-01-2013
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,212
Thanks: 33
Thanked 74 Times in 67 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

One challenge with classified ads is that if you can see the ad, so can hundreds and thousands of other potential buyers.

The best way to gain control of the boat hunt is to be proactive instead of reactive: Place a "wanted " ad on craiglist with your needs and wants. Something like, "Wanted: Older 24-32' sailboat. Prefer wheel steering, diesel inboard, dinette layout, bimini, dodger, shoal draft. Cape Dory, Alberg, Pearson, Cherubini Hunter or similar. No fixer-uppers please. What have you got?" Do not include a price range.

You will get responses from people who hadn't thought of selling their boat, listings that had expired, and owners who hadn't listed their boats for sale yet. By being the shot-caller, you have more control over the price- they haven't set one yet, so the ball is in your court.
emcentar and jimgo like this.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #48  
Old 05-01-2013
bljones's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,212
Thanks: 33
Thanked 74 Times in 67 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bljones has a spectacular aura about bljones has a spectacular aura about
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
First it's ALWAYS worth spending a Saturday checking out boats...


Look for something clean, no immediate nasty 'smell' when you step below ...

Clean bilges and cubbies are indicative of good care - a clean engine area the same.
Spot on.

Don't be afraid of a boat PROPERLY STORED AND MAINTAINED on the hard. owners, die, move away, or run out of money, or take up golf- circumstances change quickly, but it takes a while to sell a boat. as long as the boat doesn't have a foot of standing water down below because nobody bothered to check the hatches and drains regularly, a boat on the hard can be a bargain.
__________________
It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #49  
Old 05-01-2013
jimgo's Avatar
Asleep at the wheel
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,012
Thanks: 71
Thanked 116 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 4
jimgo is on a distinguished road
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

The approach I took, and it may not work for everyone, was to start off by looking at the boats that come up frequently on Craigslist. For me in my price range, those were Hunters, Catalinas, Pearsons, Ericsons, and Irwins. Not that I excluded ANY boat, but as a threshold issue, I learned more about those. I went to SailboatData.com and learned about the beam and the draft. I went to SailingTexas.com and got a feel for what the cockpit and cabins looked like. Then I tried to envision myself and my family using that boat. For example, some boats have a galley that runs the length of the starboard side and a dinette on the port side, with no other seating in the "lounge" area. I knew that wouldn't work for us, because we frequently sail with more than just us, and if it rains, we wouldn't all be able to hide in the cabin. I also looked at the cockpits and tried to envision my family and friends there. Where would kids sit? Are there moving parts (e.g., traveler) that might hit them or pinch fingers? How safe will they be if they stand on the seat to get a better view? I also decided that I wanted a wheel for steering; others love tillers (and I understand why), but for my purposes a wheel was very important. I also knew I wanted a roller furler for the headsail. Issues like those allowed me to rule out some boats, and to push others higher on my list.

Once I had a good feel for the boats that I'd likely run into, I started looking more earnestly at Craigslist and Yachtworld. My budget was a lot lower than yours, so I didn't really focus on YW too much - brokers add to the seller's cost, and I was looking for value-priced boats. Incidentally, I DID wind up buying a boat that was listed on YW, but it was more by accident. Anyway, the next thing I would do is to start examining all of the pictures that were in the Craigslist ad. If I saw stained woodwork near where the chainplates attached, the boat was typically ruled out (unless I suspected that the damage wasn't that bad due to other pictures). If I saw lots of places where the hull had been repaired, the boat was ruled out. If the boat seemed to have been poorly maintained, it was ruled out. If there was a clear line at the keel/hull joint, and especially if there were other signs of trauma in that area, the boat was ruled out. By contrast, small stains on the woodwork under windows didn't really bother me - that means the window needs to be rebedded, and I could handle that (I typically checked to see if the core in that area was rotted when aboard).

Another important thing to learn is that there are a lot of really bad salespeople out there, and they have NO CLUE how to put up a Craigslist ad. They'll have a BEAUTIFUL Pearson 323 in immaculate condition, and the subject line for the ad will be "Pearson 323" and inside the ad will say something like "1980 Pearson Sloop, desal (sic). Looks great, runs great. $8K. Calls only." And that's the entirety of the ad. You want to learn how to use Craigslist's search feature to find those ads, because most people are searching for "sailboat" or "sail boat" (which will return different results if you're on CL), and will never see the Pearson ad, which is actually good for you, because the seller will likely be frustrated that he hasn't gotten any calls. So, when you find that ad and call him, he'll be ready to make a deal.

Once you decide to go look at a boat, Faster's comments above are spot-on. Granted, someone can clean up a boat and give you the impression that it's well maintained, but from what I've seen, most of the sellers who are too lazy to maintain the boat are also too lazy to clean it up when it comes time to sell. There are a few self-inspection guides online that give you a good list of the things to look for during your walk-through. Don't be afraid to push buttons, turn stuff on/off, flush the head, hoist the sails, etc. If the seller is honest, he/she won't mind at all. I'd plan on being there at least an hour, and probably more like two in that initial visit. Also, take LOTS of pictures, even of stuff you don't think you'll want pictures of, and from strange angles. Take pictures of the mast, and the boom, and both together. Take pictures of the cabin from the companionway, and from the V-berth, the head (get the brand of head in the picture if you can), the engine and engine compartment (if it's an inboard, or the engine bracket and how it is attached, inside the cabin, if it's an outboard), and both sides of the chainplates. Take pictures of the floor, and the cabin ceiling. The cockpit, the transom, the sides, the mast step, the anchor area, etc. Get a shot of the Hull Identification Number and/or occupancy plate. Of all things be SURE to get pictures of ALL of the BAD things you see, and from six different angles.

Once you think you've found an interesting boat, load the pictures of that boat into a Photobucket account (or any other file sharing site) and post the link here. There are a LOT of good people here who can help scrutinize the pics and give you feedback. And, as I said before, if you want someone to go with you on a few look/sees, ask. As Faster said, for some people, visiting sailboats is a wonderful way to spend a Saturday!
emcentar and joebeach like this.
__________________
- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
1980 Allmand 31
1975 Albacore 15


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #50  
Old 05-01-2013
Alex W's Avatar
no longer reading SailNet
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,309
Thanks: 2
Thanked 139 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Alex W is on a distinguished road
Re: Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

Look at as many boats as possible. If you find boats one boat on Craigslist that is interesting then find all of the other ones in the same marina (especially if it is far away) that are for sale and see if any meet your parameters. Set up appointments with sellers to look a multiple boats back to back. Once in a marina, especially if it has locked gates, walk the docks and look for other boats for sale. Talk to friendly owners and ask what they like and dislike about their boats, especially if their boats are in your target size range.

When we bought the Catalina 25 we were looking at 3 or 4 boats at a time. When I bought my Pearson 28-2 my parameters were tighter but I still made days where we could look at many boats on the same day. The day that we first looked at the 28-2 we also looked at an Islander 30, Freedom 28, and one or two others. All of those were about a 2 hour drive from our house, so I made as many appointments as possible.

The Don Casey book on inspecting the aging sailboat is a useful reference for what to look for when first looking at a boat. Once you find what you think is the right boat I do think it is worth paying for a survey. However on a simpler boat (like my Catalina 25) it is pretty easy to self survey if you can do so with an open mind. The best reasons for a mechanically inclined person to pay for a survey is that it often helps with negotiation and it gets you an impartial opinion.

It's rare for boats to be on the hard here (Seattle) since people keep them in the water all year. So I can't comment on that question.

Dirty isn't a big deal if the essentials are good. I'd place more importance on the condition and quality of consumable items like sails, rigging (standing and running), canvas, the engine, batteries. Replacing all of those items with new ones will cost $10k on a 25' boat.

A dirty boat with good condition equipment is easier to get going than a clean boat that needs new sails, has a 30 year old outboard, and needs all new standing rigging. However it's more common to find the clean both with good equipment or the dirty boat with old equipment.

It's worth spending more money to get a boat that has been recently loved. I bought my Catalina 25 for $4000 but sold it for about double that. However the buyer (who is a friend) got a better deal on that boat than I did since I had done about $8000 worth of work to it (new cushions, sails, running rigging, lighting, electrical -- it all adds up). He offered more, but I sold it to him for what I thought I could get for it on CL. When I bought my Pearson (at about 5x the cost) I made a high priority of looking for a boat with good sails, cushions, engine. I've still spent about $5000 on it replacing hardware, adding an autopilot, upgrading electronics, and doing bottom work. I knew that I'd spend this upfront and when considering boats I weighed what each of them would cost me in first year work. The Pearson that needed an autopilot and bottom paint was a much better deal than the Islander 30 that needed a new engine, bottom paint, and sails...even though the asking price on the Islander was $5000 cheaper.
emcentar likes this.
__________________
I'm no longer participating on SailNet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any idea who makes this boat? copacetic Boat Review and Purchase Forum 7 02-04-2012 11:34 PM
Any idea what boat this is DavidY3411 General Discussion (sailing related) 2 03-22-2011 11:29 AM
How can I stop my boat from sinking? Exiles General Discussion (sailing related) 35 02-13-2011 10:16 AM
Beached Boat, Need idea BradGogats Seamanship & Navigation 1 10-27-2005 04:33 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.