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Please tell me this is a nutty idea so I will stop looking at this boat.

11K views 63 replies 27 participants last post by  bobperry 
#1 ·
I'm hoping to make my first sailboat purchase this year or next. A very pretty 1980 30' Cape Dory came on the market locally several months ago, but just out of my price range. However, the sale fell through because the survey showed engine has a blown head gasket, and the price has been lowered accordingly. It's now well-within my price range, although the repair will be a stretch.

Is it nuts for a novice to purchase a boat that needs a major repair? As much as I love the looks of this boat, it seems unwise for someone with my level of experience to take on a boat that needs major work. Should I just skip this boat and move on? I've been thinking about her for months, sorry she'd sold before I had enough saved to pay the original price.

Thanks, E.

(I don't think this is against the rules - here's a link to the boat Cape Dory 30)
 
#3 ·
A head gasket change is something that should/might be doable without pulling the engine. But the issue, I suppose, is - is that ALL that's wrong? Who determined that was the problem? How reliable is that nugget of information.

The ability to DIY this is a big factor, as xymotic indicated.. cost wise and comfort level wise. Paying someone $80-100/hr will up the ante in a hurry.

A cherry boat with just this issue could be a good deal overall.. but but but.....
 
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#6 ·
if all the others systems are in good shape it would be a good deal 12.5k . offer 11k and and at that price you could afford to have someone replace the head gasket if that is the only real problem. that boat in good shape should sell for in the mid 20s. which engine does it have?
 
#7 ·
I can appreciate the "stretched budget" issue, so let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. If you buy the boat this year and can't fix it yourself, and can't afford to pay someone else to fix it this spring/summer, will you be able to in the fall/winter? Or will you be essentially in the same financial situation at that time?

This is a buyer's market, and another CD may come alone in the interim that will be somewhere between the cost of what you'll pay for this boat, and what you'll pay for this boat plus the engine repairs. Will you kick yourself if that boat, or another, equally attractive boat comes up? I mean, you could be out playing/learning to sail, but instead your boat will be sitting. On the plus side, if you do get the engine looked over by a qualified mechanic and you're OK with paying whatever he says it will cost to get it back up to snuff (or doing the work yourself to make those repairs), you'll have a 1980 CD with a known-good engine (or about as known-good as you can get), and that peace of mind may be worth it to you, even IF you have to wait a year to really begin to enjoy her.
 
#8 ·
Your worst case is the engine is shot. A new Beta Marine engine/trans combo will run you about $7K + shipping.

It's a fair bit of work but not rocket science to pull the old engine and swap in the new, especially if you know someone who's done it before and can help you through the process.

The question is would that $7K blow your budget and can you do the work?

In the boat's favor is the fact that she looks like she had an owner who kept her well. That's VERY important in a boat this age.

A lot of folks here will tell you to go for it (after all we all did), but at the end of the day you have to pay the bills and no matter how well maintained there will be additional expenses with any boat that need to be factored in.

Best of luck whether you decide this is the one or if it will be the boat you haven't found yet.
 
#9 · (Edited)
My mechanical skill level: pretty unskilled. Sailing skill level: been sailing dingys for about 5 years. No cruiser experience. (The wind dies, I paddle home or get a tow.)

I am, however, married to a mechanical engineer. We have a deal - I buy the boat, she takes charge of the basic maintenance, at least until I learn how to do these things as well. (Can she fix a head gasket? I don't know.)

I have been assuming this is a repair I will have to have professionally done. Actually, given the $4,000 cut in the price (the original price was $16,500) I assume a hefty repair bill is in order.

What worries me is - is a blown head gasket the beginning of this boat's problems or the end? The last buyer walked away after the survey, and I assume he/she was also offered the same cut in the price.

E.
 
#11 ·
What worries me is - is a blown head gasket the beginning of this boat's problems or the end? The last buyer walked away after the survey, and I assume he/she was also offered the same cut in the price.

E.
If you can get a copy of the survey, do so- that will answer a whole load of unknowns.

There are many many boats in the same price range and same LOA range that are ready to go today in your area. Place a wanted ad on craigslist and see what comes out of the woodwork.

All that being said, if it is simply a blown head gasket (evidenced by being hard to start but starting and running, with low compression, no compression, white smoke- if it is hard to start but runs, with black smoke, the problem is rings, valves, or valve seals) It is a relatively simple fix on a volvo diesel- certainly a lot simpler than replacing the head gasket on a DOHC gasoline automotive engine. If you can build Ikea furniture, you can apparently read a manual, so you should be able to fix a head gasket.... and it is a good idea to learn to fix a head gasket.

Replacing a head gasket is certainly cheaper and simpler and less time consuming than installing an outboard mount and outboard and remote controls to the cockpit and a new gas tank, etc., etc...
 
#10 ·
Did the owner know the head gasket was blown when he accepted the offer from the first buyer? If he did and didn't disclose that I would start to look at the boat with an electron scanning microscope. There may be other issues. The boat does look clean, maybe a bit too clean. Did the blown head gasket allow coolant into the chamber which maybe lead to hydro locking and possibly to a bent rod. Sails in good shape? I'd low ball it by about $5k, he doesn't want two boats.
 
#13 ·
Good question. In a separate ad on the Cape Dory message board he says the blown head gasket came up in the survey during the sale. On the other hand, the boat was very reasonably priced, so maybe he did know before the survey. Or maybe he just doesn't want two boats.

If a blown head gasket is easy to fix, why wouldn't the owner fix it instead of cutting the price $4000?
 
#16 ·
CD is a blue water boat.. by your stated experience, I'd say don't go for it. You won't be happy and the boat won't be "happy" unless it's on the ocean. On the Bay, it would be a slug.
 
#18 ·
Check that spares are available. The head or block could be cracked. Assuming the engine is original then it is 33 years old and spares may well be in short supply or out of stock totally.

Also my spidy sense tells me that it is not going to be just a head gasket. They are about $30 and it takes 1 - 2 hours to replace assuming nothing else is wrong. A $4k drop for a head gasket.

Hmm plenty boats with running engines out there.
 
#19 ·
It is a
Volvo
engine.

Unless you like being frustrated and paying exorbitant amounts for engine parts don't do it. I'd sooner take a cd 30' with an Atomic 4 gas engine than an old Volvo diesel.

cd 30' is a nice looking boat but the draft is a tad on the deep side for some parts of the Chessy.
 
#24 ·
I like classic lines too, but that doesn't mean that boats with classic lines are necessarily the best boats for my uses.

Think about how you'll use it and pick boats that excel in those conditions, not in how they look.

In my case I care about sailing performance in light winds and do coastal sailing -- scenarios that a full keel boat doesn't do well in. I think my Pearson 28-2 is a little ugly (it's got a huge freeboard and is beamy), but the combination of interior layout and sailing performance make it one of the better choices for me.

If budget is a concern I'd also recommend looking at boats that are a little bit smaller. A 25-27' boat (often with an outboard) will have sails that are half as much as a 30' boat, a motor that is 1/4 as much (if it is an outboard), simpler systems, and be much less money to maintain. Moorage will be about $100 cheaper per month (at least here in Seattle). They are still good sizes for coastal cruising with a couple.
 
#22 ·
If the gang has successfully talked you out of the boat, why don't you tell us more about yourself and where you plan on sailing?

BTW, there are a LOT of Annapolis-area members here, and I'm sure some would come along to look at a few boats. If you wind up in Philly or the NJ shore, let me know, I'd consider coming along. Going boat shopping is kind of like going to an open house. :)
 
#26 ·
Yes, you guys have definitely talked me out of this boat. But I was hoping you would - I could sense all that shiny teak was clouding my judgement.

I'm Washington, DC-based and have been sailing dingys (Flying Scots) on the Potomac for about 5 years. That may overstate my experience somewhat as I don't get out that many times in a year, but I could probably challenge an ASA101 course. Just enough experience to know how little I have. But I'm bored with river sailing within towing distance of my little marina and would like to move up to sailing a small cruiser on the Chessy. I don't want to race, I'm not looking to cross oceans - I just want to get out of the city and onto the water with my dog and my wife and a picnic cooler and maybe spend the night outside with a beer in my hand.

I've saved about $15,000, hopefully enough for a little starter boat and a slip for the season. The timing is terrible - both the wife and I are at risk for furloughs. But I just turned 40 and found out that I'm likely to spend my old age in a wheelchair (inheritable illness). I'd like to not wait much longer to get out there, since there's no guarantee I'll be able to have my retirement dream of sailing around on my boat.

E.
 
#27 ·
Tartan 27'.
Shoal draft 3'6" with centerboard up, 6' w/C/B down. You would be able to get into many gunkholes with this boat.
Classic lines, decent sailor.
Smallish cabin but big enough for two.
You won't likely find one with a Volvo engine in it.
You also won't have to spend that much up front.
 
#28 ·
I spent a month on a 25 ft Hunter down in Florida doing the ICW and Keys. The wife and
I have spent many 3 day weekends on her as well. So you don't need a 30 footer. The biggest drawback of the 25 ft Hunter was no place to store a dink and a tad too much draft to wad comfortably to shore. If I was sailing the same area, the same way, I'd be looking at a swing keel/centerboard boat so I could beach her and step ashore dry.
 
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#30 ·
There are not that many T27's listed right now. You could join my Tartan 27 yahoo group (T27Owners) as people have listed their boats there. There is one on Martha's Vineyard and a few more will be up for sale soon.
I know of a "free" T27 hull in Mamaroneck, NY. No mast, diesel engine. Located mast in Fairhaven, MA.
There are a bunch of T30's listed though. The T30 has a more spacious cabin, is a stiff sailor but the draft is about 5' which wouldn't be much better than the cd 30' you were interested in. The T30 does not quite have that classic look though.
 
#34 ·
Here's what I mean. We paid $6K for this Catalina 22 in 2006, sailed her for two years and made a few small improvements. Sold her for $7k in '08.

With the boat market down you could probably find something similar for $5K-$5,500 today.



Just be prepared that you'll see a lot of neglected boats in this price range before you find your perfect boat.

Best of luck,
Jim
 
#35 ·
Looks, schmooks. ;)

You can't see how your boat looks when you are aboard her, and when you aren't aboard her you don't care how she looks because you just wish you were aboard.

Of course, I say this as the owner of an ugly boat.

emcentar, I understand your concerns regarding this maybe not being the right time to buy a boat, what with the risk of furloughs, etc...

But, you know in your heart- there is never a right time, and there are plenty of reasons available each and every day if you want a reason not to do it...

.... and you will find a reason why it IS the right time to pull the trigger on a boat purchase, if you want to bad enough.

You're here now for a reason, and that reason isn't for advice on how to avoid buying a boat for several more years.

After all, this ain't DON'TSailnet.
 
#36 ·
Here's an idea...upper end of your price range but most Owners are willing to negotiate. These old Irwins are good sailors and have good draft for the Chesapeake. Not quite as pretty as the CD but, in my opinion, more attractive than the Catalinas or Hunters (not that those are bad boats - just a different aesthetic).

A boat this size would be a good day sailor and also give you a tremendous amount of flexibility in expanding your horizons later if you want to.

(I have no connection to or commerical interest in this boat).

1968 Irwin 31 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
 
#37 ·
Did anyone pull the oil dip stick and look to see if the oil is 'milky' with water? Anyone turn it over, for any 'noise', just like your car eng? A head gasket is not a deal breaker for me, if the oil isn't 'new', and no water in crankcase. I agree, a H-G can be replaced in about 4hrs, compression checked, fuel bled, and oil changed, charged Batt's and go. CD? Can you get a copy of the last insp? Or get your own insp done? My, 02 (which ain't worth 2 cents).
 
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