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Looking at a Catalina 28-2, 1997

19K views 46 replies 11 participants last post by  Diva du Nord 
#1 · (Edited)
#2 ·
I'm guessing the Catalina is the newest of the lot? That's gonna be worth something too.

We looked at a C28 on our last boat shop, but at the time it was pretty overpriced, we were also moving down from 40 feet and it was too tight for us.

Of the rest of your list I've sailed the two Rangers, the 29 is a tad roomier and better behaved than the 28 and well sailed there's not a lot between them performance wise though the 28's brief was more racer/cruiser than cruiser/racer.

Other issues aside, I'd probably list the C28 and C&C 29-2 first followed by the R29, with the C-28s owner support, decent engine, and open transom as the decider..
 
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#3 ·
I think faster nailed it.

It's a pretty safe bet that anyone who has owned or crewed a C&C 29 will tell you that it's fast, but a bit tender. (I have never owned one, but that model C&C was on my short list for a time). C&C factory support does not exist for the old C&C's. However, the C&C owners network is borderline fanatical. :) CNCphotoalbum.com - the email list will get any questions answered.

I think your best bet is probably to find a C28-2 and sail on it. The open transom is a great feature of you are accessing the boat from a tender.

Overall, I think you might find the build quality of the C&C a bit better. That is not to bash the Catalina, all boats have their shortfalls.
 
#4 ·
Having raced against a few with my 28'lod Jeanneau, I personally would say the SJ28 is the fastest of the bunch. The rangers while familiar, I have not raced against as many of them. The C28II has usually been one of the slower ones. Altho it could be THAT particular one too.

But with this in mind, my swag on them all, is the C28 will be the nicer one inside.

There is also a few Hunters from that age that are nice inside and out. One in my YC has an inside shower, hot water, walk thru transom etc like the C28. That couple has mentioned selling, as they want something a bit bigger. IIRC it is an H28.5 It has a phrf in the upper 190 range. The C28 in the 210-220 IIRC. Where as the SJ is 190'ish at least here in the seattle area.

Marty
 
#5 ·
Well, you've certainly done your homework on different boats. Congratulations on that.

It is unclear, however, how you intend to use the boat. All the discussion about certain ratings and ratios belie the fact that the design criteria/mission/goal (call it what you will) for the Catalina 28 was never to "compete" either in club racing (so few were made, relatively, that one-design is pretty much out of the question because they were spread around the country) or with other boats. The design was essentially to pack big boat stuff in a smaller hull, with which they did a very good job. I'd guess there are more amenities on a C28 than the Islander 28, both nice boats. The C28 was among the costliest Catalinas ever made, pound-for-pound or dollar per length, some consider it overpriced. If you are comfortable with the $$s involved, then it might be a very good deal.

The M25XPB (C is for Catalina and is usually the wiring harness and is relatively meaningless) is a far different engine than most other M25 series engines, although it, too, is a Kubota block. The raw water pump is tucked under the alternator and is a bear, location-wise. Most shipped with Sherwood pumps, which should be replaced with Oberdorfers. The best source of information about this engine is the C310 group here: Catalina 310 | SailboatOwners.com Forums They are good engines, like the other M25 series, just different animals, like cousins! :)

Good luck, nice boats.
 
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#6 ·
I have owned my 1996 Catalina 28 for a little over a year now. I can only compare her to the other boats I've owned which include: Holder 20, Grampian 26, Catalina 309, Precision 23, O'Day 20, and Cal 21.

I find the 28 to be better mannered than the 309. Seems to behave better when the wind picks up and she hasn't gotten a reef yet. Sailing into the wind, I can lock the wheel and she'll stay on course almost indefinitely, which is something my 309 wouldn't do. She's not prone to rounding up, although she eventually will. Not a tender boat, but she's not overly stiff...just moderate. She points well enough. I couldn't give you figures on that. Mine's a wing keel. She's easy enough to single hand, provided you don't mind going forward to adjust the traveler. Obviously, they wanted to maximize the interior volume, so they gave her a wide beam. That's always going to affect sailing characteristics, but they seem to have done a good job with it, as she doesn't sail "tubby". I have found no real negatives to how she sails. Everything she does is moderate.

I do appreciate the MP25 engine. Where I dock it, There's a 34 on my starboard and a 36 on my port, and they have the same engine. Plenty of punch for a 28 footer, which is nice when going into steep, closely packed, Lake Michigan waves.

She does have one annoying quirk, but only under power. The faster she goes, the more the wheel pulls to the left. If you were to let go of the wheel at cruising speed, she'd immediately go into a hard turn to port. It would probably be pretty much a spin, but I've never allowed her to do it. The wheel clutch comes in handy. I haven't found a lot of info on this trait, other than it's common to the C28 and is supposedly the result of the relationship of the prop and rudder. I've read that there's a replacement rudder that fixed it, but is expensive. I'll just deal with it.

Access to the engine is excellent. Once you take the fiberglass housing off, you can get to everything easily. The transmission and stuffing box are also easily accessed.

You'll make up your own mind about the interior, and your needs are likely different than mine. We miss the room of our 309 but we're couple that uses it for daysailing, and we sail her to other ports three or four times per summer and spend a total of about 12 nights on her each summer.

We're happy with her size. We live next to the marina, so I bicycle over often to single handle her, and she's easy to get out of and into the slip with no assistance. Big enough to be appropriate for getting around Lake Michigan. We've had enough experience with this boat to be able to say we'll have her for many years.

Good luck with your search.
 
#46 ·
I have owned my 1996 Catalina 28 for a little over a year now. I can only compare her to the other boats I've owned which include: Holder 20, Grampian 26, Catalina 309, Precision 23, O'Day 20, and Cal 21.

I find the 28 to be better mannered than the 309. Seems to behave better when the wind picks up and she hasn't gotten a reef yet. Sailing into the wind, I can lock the wheel and she'll stay on course almost indefinitely, which is something my 309 wouldn't do. She's not prone to rounding up, although she eventually will. Not a tender boat, but she's not overly stiff...just moderate. She points well enough. I couldn't give you figures on that. Mine's a wing keel. She's easy enough to single hand, provided you don't mind going forward to adjust the traveler. Obviously, they wanted to maximize the interior volume, so they gave her a wide beam. That's always going to affect sailing characteristics, but they seem to have done a good job with it, as she doesn't sail "tubby". I have found no real negatives to how she sails. Everything she does is moderate.

I do appreciate the MP25 engine. Where I dock it, There's a 34 on my starboard and a 36 on my port, and they have the same engine. Plenty of punch for a 28 footer, which is nice when going into steep, closely packed, Lake Michigan waves.

She does have one annoying quirk, but only under power. The faster she goes, the more the wheel pulls to the left. If you were to let go of the wheel at cruising speed, she'd immediately go into a hard turn to port. It would probably be pretty much a spin, but I've never allowed her to do it. The wheel clutch comes in handy. I haven't found a lot of info on this trait, other than it's common to the C28 and is supposedly the result of the relationship of the prop and rudder. I've read that there's a replacement rudder that fixed it, but is expensive. I'll just deal with it.

Access to the engine is excellent. Once you take the fiberglass housing off, you can get to everything easily. The transmission and stuffing box are also easily accessed.

You'll make up your own mind about the interior, and your needs are likely different than mine. We miss the room of our 309 but we're couple that uses it for daysailing, and we sail her to other ports three or four times per summer and spend a total of about 12 nights on her each summer.

We're happy with her size. We live next to the marina, so I bicycle over often to single handle her, and she's easy to get out of and into the slip with no assistance. Big enough to be appropriate for getting around Lake Michigan. We've had enough experience with this boat to be able to say we'll have her for many years.

Good luck with your search.
 
#7 ·
Windworks here in Seattle has a 2007 model (I think this is the same boat but not a tall rig) in their charter fleet. They are a membership club but I think they will rent to non-members pending availability. I took it for a weekend when I was a member there and thought it was quite solid. Roomy for the size and sailed pretty well.

Charter our Catalina sailboat, Days Off - Windworks Sailing and Powerboating
 
#8 · (Edited)
Your short list covers a lot of boats, some of which really do not compare too well (apples to oranges). The C&C 29 (mk 1) is a FAR different boat than the SJ 28, for instance. Built a heck of a lot better, too. The C&C 29 mk 2 is a bit smaller but a well built boat.

I have sailed some on a Cat 28 and know several happy owners. It's not fast, but as others have pointed out, it's a decent effort to put a "quart into a pint pot". Be very sure that you can live with the table in the "up" stored position, as it bashes the skull of anyone over about 5'9".
If I were to choose a Cat in that general size range, I would choose it over the venerable Cat 30.

There are some differences in the Mk 1 and 2 Cat 28, and there is an upgrade available for the spar on one of them -- I forget whether it's the single spreader or double spreader version.

Given the arbitrary cut-off in your LOA numbers, I gather than you have a slip that will not hold anything (!) longer than 28.5'.

Happy shopping,
Loren

ps: we once spent a year (!) looking for a move-up boat about 30 feet long. Finally found and bought the boat we still own 20 years later, our Olson 34. "Never say never" as the saying goes!
:)

pps: Any reason why you are not looking at an Ericson 28+ ??
 
#9 ·
Thanks, all you guys, and it was great to hear some owner written sailing experiences. I will have to check out the C309 now to get a criterion for the C28 sailing qualities. I really appreciate ALL the input, and I love the Sailnet group for the frank opinions and wisdom.

I must not have talked enough about the intended mission for the boat, so I will add to the extended cruising in the Pacific Northwest/Salish Sea area and inside passage up as far as Bella Coola, maybe over to the Haida Gwai if the weather window presents itself and then cruise the East coast of the Queen Charlotte Islands. My wife and I love kayaking on the west coast of Vancouver Island but she suffered a semi permanent shoulder injury while hiking so, so we thought that sailing would fill the gap somewhat by getting us out on the water together. For myself, I miss working with airfoils, having been a pilot all my life, so I thought getting back into sailing would help scratch the itch, now that my flying days are over. I still kayak anyway so I get on the water at least twice a week and rattle off 7 to 15 miles at a stretch.
Always makes me laugh when guys selling say that their boat cruises at 4.5 knots?!?! Hell, I cruise at 4.5 knots in my kayak for hours at a time, Ha Ha. Get great mileage too!

Back to the topic of C28's, I was wondering if the turning to PORT tendency under power might be from an offset propshaft, which some companies build in to their boats so that the shaft can be changed without dropping the rudder, just a thought?? I wonder what the new rudder compensation looks like. Hmmm, might be an interesting airfoil. That was good info in any case.

Thanks again guys, Peter
 
#10 ·
I think the tendency of the rudder to spin to port is usually a result of the propwash acting on the balancing area of the rudder.. under sail it makes for a light fingered helm, but under power it can be annoying.. Our boat does it as well, as do most well balanced rudders.

We rarely hand steer at speed for any considerable time under power, that's 'Otto's' job, and he doesn't have any problem dealing with it.
 
#11 ·
Olsen,
Yes, thanks for that, and yes, the very first boat we looked at was an Ericson 30+. Being newbies in the buying game, we lowballed the guy, who had spent 6 months pretty much full time over last winter redoing every hose, thru hull, re-wired, new rigging , you name it. We were dumb and we let it slip through our fingers (all thumbs) and it went for a price we should/could have paid. My wife is still kicking herself you know where, about that one. We have looked at a number of C&C 34's but almost every one had the crap raced out of it and needed expensive repairs or lacked too many other things like dodgers and dinghies and bells an whistles. We passed up on a Ranger 29 for 3000 dollars for instance, because after we added up all that it/we needed for cruising, the cost came to over 9000 dollars and then the Atomic four started blowing blue smoke. Since we had already passed up on a perfectly good Ranger 29 with a 3 cyinder kubota for 9500 dollars we passed on the cheaper one too.

I don't know how many Cat 30's we have looked at, but LOTS! Most of them have dished decks where the mast is stepped, and we all know what that means! There are a couple of Beneteau First 32's around and that boat kind of turns my crank. The first one we looked at has the original Volvo diesel MD7B with raw water cooling....need I say more? The second Bene had a nice new 3 cylinder Yanny but the ribs down in the bilge were cracking and the keel bolts were tightened so hard that the keel stub was being compressed and dimpling from the bolt head pressure deforming the washer plates. Plus the guy had used stainless 316 bolts which need checking ANUALLY according to Beneteau service bulletin by actually removing one bolt while still in the water....... I'm getting good at walking or running AWAY! Sorry to say.

We will keep looking as long as it takes, but GOD WILLING, I won't have to wait too much longer. If I was a young guy, I would have more patience, thinking my life was stretching out ahead of me into infinity. After retirement the end seems a little nearer and the time waiting a little dearer, if you get my meaning.

Thanks for the suggestions.
Peter
 
#12 ·
If the 28 foot LOA is your game, then you missed a couple of worthy boats to look at too, but given your goals, I'm still not sure how these fit.
There are 3 other boats I'd say might be worthy to consider...
J28
Beneteau 285
Laser 28
Hunter 272

Heck if any of them are contenders, then maybe
Tartan 28
Cape Dory 28

But given that you've discussed the Cat 30, then the 28ft LOA, probably isn't a stopping point.
As you can probably imagine there are plenty of advantages/disadvantages in each design, which is why others are saying, how are you going to use the boat. What features are a priority.
 
#13 ·
No, I am not set on a 28 by any means. We have no issues with a slip for up to 36 feet. Over 35 feet the annual overhead kicks in to be over our budget in retirement. I was not really considering 28 footers until we stumbled on the Catalina 28 Mk2. The 28 ft SHOOTOUT, was just to compare it to other 28 footers to see how it shook out. I thought it might be useful for others looking at 28's also.

My preference, my "I really want one" boat would be a C&C 32, a non cored, sturdy, graceful, fast enough boat and seaworthy too. Unfortunately, not many around that we could afford. There is one, but with a 13 HP Yanmar that I consider quite underpowered. Up here in the Pacific NW, you power probably 60% of the time if you want to get somewhere, so......
Cheers, Peter
 
#15 · (Edited)
Thanks for the additional info. Small world -- when we were shopping in 1994, we passed on a nice C&C 32 in Lake Union. Too pricy for us, but a nice boat nonetheless. Then we had to pass on a clean Yamaha 33 on Vancouver Island -- the price was very high and non negotiable.
Since those days I have done a long delivery on a Y-33, and it is right up there with the best of the Tartans, Ericsons, Hinterhoeller, and CS.

If possible, I would like to herd you toward an 80's Ericson 32-3 or the aft cabin 32-200 model.
BTW, once you get beyond about 32 feet, the "modern" aft cabin and aft head model interiors are nice. That's one feature that attracted us to our O-34.

Happy hunting,
Loren
 
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#14 ·
You haven't mentioned a budget.. Or I missed it. I think the Catalina 34s &36s, esp MkIs are pretty good value, the MkIIs nicer but at a premium. Hard to beat as BC cruising boats.

C&C 36s are also worth a look, many in the sub 30K range. Also in Bc there are always some Peterson 35s that would give you all the performance you want, some of which were nicely crusified.

But it depends on your budget.
 
#16 ·
Thanks Loren and Faster,

I will look for boats like these. Although the popular myth around here is; "It's a Buyers Market" there isn't a lot out there right now in our Budget range to buy.

Yeah, a Peterson 35 would definitely stoke my fire, (embers anyway) A friend in Vancouver really wanted to sell me his Spencer 34, but it was too racy inside for the Admiral. I really liked that one and it's still for sale?!?

If I could get the Bene First 32 with the ancient Volvo's price down far enough, I'd get it and re-engine with a Yanmar.
Cheers, Peter
 
#19 ·
Thanks....

If I could get the Bene First 32 with the ancient Volvo's price down far enough, I'd get it and re-engine with a Yanmar.
Cheers, Peter
Think you'll find the First 32 has a 36 foot interior crammed down to 32.. Very cramped below
 
#17 ·
No, the prop is not offset on the Catalina 28. And as already mentioned, she's "light fingered" under sail. Under power, it doesn't seem to require any correction, there's just the constant tug.

Not sure about the comment about the table stored in the up position and head injury hazard. The table is on a pedestal near the mast, and you're probably already aware of how it works. Walking forward of the mast, headroom diminishes for people over 5'9" or so, until you are standing in the v-berth area under the hatch. I'm 5'11", so going forward, I just put a hand on the mast support as a reminder to duck. I roam freely in the rest of the cabin.

I'll also mention that the icebox is very well insulated. Our's was retro-fitted with a refrigeration unit, but the pump was right under my v-berth and drove me nuts. I tore it out and now we use blocks of ice and they keep very well.

Our boat came with a cockpit table, so we took out the saloon table and I just got done cutting and binding new carpet for the entire interior without the hole for the table's pedestal base. Wow. I think it's the only 28 footer where you can take a break from sailing and go below to play soccer.

I looked at an Islander 28 before we looked at the Catalina. It's condition was not as nice as the Catalina and the mast plate was depressed into the cabin top...uh, oh. Aside from that, for how we use a boat, it wasn't nearly as nice as the Catalina. Cramped down below compared to the Cat, and engine access was not nearly as good. Everything on a boat is a compromise, but I much prefer the queen sized berth under our cockpit compared to the Islander's quarter berth. A bit of an apples/oranges comparison, but I think my wife would have been kicking my butt if I'd gotten the Islander. My apologies to Mr. Perry.
 
#18 ·
Thanks again Siamese for all this good info.

I looked up Cat 309 sailing characteristics to get a criteria for the 28, and if you say that it is comparable to the 309 then it must sail pretty darn good!!

I'm sure Mr Perry won't be heartbroken by your critique on the Islander 28. I recently sailed on one of his "One Designs", originally called the "YONI" It sailed pretty well, but the owner had added a solid dodger of aluminum that converted it into a condominium, (it was already a motorsailer) and totally ruined the look of the vessel. You couldn't even see the telltales because the dodger roof was so extensive?? A fabulous vessel made of aluminum and then taken to Jespersens and a cherrywood boat built inside the aluminum hull. Looked fabulous, but overnighting on the beast with my wife, the interior sweated so much that we were drenched by midnight. Yes, we had the overhead hatch and port light opened as well. Luckily, we hadn't purchased it for 1.2 million??

Anyway, we will see what the C28 owner comes in with, probably today. He was not expecting to sell before Spring so a bit unprepared.
I wished that it had an autopilot which I consider to be essential for single handing while my wife is disabled. Would probably be expensive to retrofit?

The only other thing that bugged me was that the owner leaves the annual oil change until the Spring, letting the engine baste in that old contaminated oil. Why not change it now so that the engine is not marinating in acids mixed with the old oil for the duration of the winter season??? People are funny! I would also run some fresh water through the heat exchanger and leave it with a bit of fresh antifreeze/water mix in it over the winter as well.

Cheers, Pete
 
#21 ·
I wished that it had an autopilot which I consider to be essential for single handing while my wife is disabled. Would probably be expensive to retrofit?

The only other thing that bugged me was that the owner leaves the annual oil change until the Spring, letting the engine baste in that old contaminated oil. Why not change it now so that the engine is not marinating in acids mixed with the old oil for the duration of the winter season??? People are funny! I would also run some fresh water through the heat exchanger and leave it with a bit of fresh antifreeze/water mix in it over the winter as well.

Cheers, Pete
Pete, actually it's an advantage to get your own autopilot. You can get newer technology. We have an ancient ST3000 exposed belt wheel drive. The intermediate years of the ST4000 had LOTS of problems: needed rudder sensors, the O ring at the wheel was flimsy, the clutch sucked, the belts wore out....

Oil changes not done once won't kill ya. Don't sweat it, it's not as big an issue as it's made out to be. I'll get flamed for that one for sure.

HXs with proper zinc changes are not an issue either. The wate doesn't freeze up your way, and the HX have sea water on one side and fresh water coolant on the other. I'd be more concerned about thge quality of the coolant than the sea water.

Good luck.
 
#20 ·
Mine has the original Raymarine wheel steering type autopilot. The comparable, but better new unit from Raymarine is $1,100.00 at defender right now. It's not that difficult an installation for an owner to do.

The compass needs replacing on my unit, so I've been single-handing without the autopilot. The wheel clutch comes in mighty handy. If your wife is able to at least take the wheel now and then, that'd help.
 
#23 ·
OK, well, that was disappointing! The guy did an inventory, and then came up with a figure of 44K for the 1997 Cat 28-2??? Yikes! He must want to get every nickel he spent on maintenance out of the sales price. We figured 30K would be fair, kind of splitting the difference of two, well equipped, 97 Cat 28's on Yachtworld, but no, another owner that wants the moon. Oh Well.

Anybody know anything about Sceptre 36's?? Maybe I should start another thread?
Cheers, Pete
 
#24 ·
The Sceptre 36s are pretty, nice boats. (note the comma..) Kind of an upper crust Peterson 35 in many ways, similar era and design brief. Most nicely finished but there could be some 'kit' hull and decks in the mix. The one negative for me is/was the silly skeg they put in front of the rudder. I'd much rather have a proper spade like the P35.

They are coming down in price too now, as is everything pre-85/90. Very stock, traditional layouts, decent cockpit, good upwind performance. You may or may not know they are a derivation of the (also local) Crown 34 so if you like the Sceptre the Crown is worth a look too. Clark boats in WA purchased the Crown molds at some point and produced the same boat (with some mods, IIRC) as the San Juan 34.

Good looking boats, with the typical IOR hull form cautions.. masthead rigs with high aspect mains and largish genoas/chutes. A bit skittish in a breeze downwind esp with spinnaker. However we've owned similar boats and all this is manageable with sensible sail and apparent wind angle selection.

But if you're up to 36 feet and not planning to race, there are other options too.. the aforementioned Catalinas (cruising comfort and space), the CS 36T (rugged, handsome, solid boats that can go anywhere) Pearson 36-2 if you can find one...

Is $30K your target??
 
#26 · (Edited)
C&C 30MKII Asking price will probably go over 30K, but that is asking. You should be able to get one in decent shape right at about 30K...maybe a bit more if it is in perfect shape, but that would probably be worth going out on a limb for.

Fast, well built, walk through transom with fold down door/ladder, aft cabin, aft head with enough room for SSS, nice galley for a boat that size.

The V berth is a bit short but good for kids or one tall adult or two not so tall.

As much ventilation as any other boat in it's call, most probably more.

Handles well under power or sail. Reef a bit early but good in light air.
 
#28 ·
That would be Canadian $. According to our broker, the boats sell in Canada for the same number as the American pricing. In other words, if a boat is selling for U.S.32,000 in the U.S. it will sell in Canada for 32,000 Canadian. Our dollar probably buys the same number of loaves of bread as the American dollar buys in the U.S. It's just that the exchange rate sucks right now or we would have bought an American boat by now.
Cheers, Pete
 
#29 ·
Pete.. some possible candidates in this list.. though you may have seen it already.

The Ericson 34, Peterson 33, plus Irwin 30 and ODay 302 (both in Maple Bay), a Hunter 31 south of the border.. all priced in line with your wants.

1975 (Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale
 
#30 ·
Um, not sure I would agree with the same asking dollars tween US and Canada. There is a Jeanneau SF37 in Vancouver. $ca is 150K, a bit less than 120K US$ with current exchange rate.

BUT, $44K for a Cat28 seems a bit much. $30K or there abouts for a nicer one seems about right.......that is me.

Marty
 
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