I am new here and looking for some advice (of course). I live in the Annapolis area and am looking at getting my first sailboat. The boat that I like the most so far says it is a 1975 Bristol 28 - however; production of the 28 stopped in '74 I think; and the broker can't find the HIN number (this is a problem in and of itself).
The current listing price is 11+, which the boat is in good shape (relatively)-but without the HIN number (sidebar-I thought HINs were required after 73) does that hurt the value.
I have looked at the NAPA value of this Hull-but I was wondering if anyone knew the "real world" value and if it is best to negotiate before or after the survey.
Any and all advice is welcome before I take the dive. Cheers!
If this is the Bristol 28 I think it is ( on back creek at one of the apartment complexes).
This is my humble opinion;
Its not in bad shape, there is crazing around all the stanchions and the deck needs a good repaint. Personally I think its over priced, I would take the cost of repairing the crazing and a deck repaint off the price. He is asking 11,900, so somewhere in the region of 10 to 10.5 k would seem a reasonable first offer, if there is a HIN number, and if the year is correct. Without the HIN number the boat is not worth it. Make sure it has a good title. I did not have a look inside, but through the ports it looked pretty clean.
Negotiate before the survey and again after. With the glut of boats on the market in Annapolis I would low ball him, and offer about 6K. For 10K in annapolis right now there are some nicely kept 26-28 footers on the market. I Think this has the venerable Atomic 4 in it as a motor. RIght now in Spinsheet there is an immaculate Catalina 27 with diesel and new sails for 11K, and CRAB have a clean C&C 27 for 5K.
hope this helps
Really appreciate your response
I really like the idea of a Pearson or a Bristol. But definitely haven't counted out a Catalina or a C&C. I looked at a Catalina on the South River that was in pretty good shape last weekend priced about half of the Bristol. Would you mind PMing me the phone numbers or emails to these other boats?
Once again, you have been very helpful!
To begin with, I had not seen the 28 in photos before (frankly this looks like a 26 in the photos) but this was part of a series of comparatively rare but cool little boats. They were part of that second generation of Bristols that were designed by Halsey Herreshoff as replacement for the first generation Alberg, Alden, Hood boats. The series which included a 22/23, a 26, a 30 (not to be mistaken for the later 29.9 which I really don't especially like), the 33/34 and this boat.
From a design standpoint these were some of the best all around boats that Bristol ever built. The couple that I have sailed on sailed very well, offering good performance and motion comfort for their size and age.
Pricing boats of this age is very difficult. They often need so much stuff (sails, standing and running rigging, engine rebuilds, upholstery, and all kinds of cosmetics) that it is almost imposible to come up with a fair market value. This looks like a decent boat in decent shape with decent upholstery and sails plus a diesel. They are way better built than something like a Catalina 27, and are generally nicer all around boats than the C&C 27.
If this is the Ellen R in Annapolis, the photos show the Builders badge for the boat which would tell you the hull number (sometimes VIN as well). Bristols of this era sometimes had their VIN molded into the hull under the main hatch slide. So, for what it is worth, in my opinion, if there is a clear title and you have the hull numbr, the lack of a visible VIN means absolutely nothing relative to the price of the boat or its desirability for purchase. Boats this age have often been painted and the vin numbers lost in the process (The VIN on my 1982 is barely visible).
In this economy, and given the description of the boat, and assuming that the sails really are in good shape and less than 10-15 years old., and that the engine runs, I would probably start out somewhere around $9,000 or so and see where it went from there.
By the way, the propane stove appears to be powered by propane torch type canisters and that is not a safe or legal marine propane stove. I would plan to replace it with a non-presurized alcohol to avoid the complications or retro fitting a legal propane system.
Where is the C&C 27 for $5000?
Looks like I am looking for the same sort of boat you are.
JeffH- Are the prices better in Annaplolis than Fl? That would be a good excuse to take a vacation and sail south.
CRAB in Annapolis has the c&C, not too sure of the website, but its the chesapeake regional acessible boating organization.
These days it is hard to say whether there are better prices in Fla than on the Chesapeake. Historically the Chesapeake and Florida had very similar prices but the boats in Florida were a lot more beat up due to their tropical exposure and year round usage. One thing about the Chesapeake is that there generally seems to be more boats for sale and a wider variety of boats on the market.
I doubt the price difference on a small boat would make enough of a difference to make it worth while to buy a boat in Maryland and sail or trailer it to Florida.
I was not the person who mentioned the C&C 27 for $5K but he did mention CRAB and Spinsheet. Crab is a organization who provides access to sailing for people with physical limitations. They get a lot of boats donated and resell them moderately cheaply. The couple boats of theirs that I have looked at with people were nicely cleaned up but were not in especially good condition as you would expect out of a donated boat. Spinsheet is the local sailing magazine which features a bunch of classifieds. SpinSheet - Boats for Sale
I recently (May) bought a 1974 Bristol 28 on e-bay for 3K. That price I believe is well below its value. I bought the boat sight unseen and have probably taken some risk - for the price I think it will be worth it. My intention was to find a project boat to refit. As only a few of the boats were ever built there isn't much information available out there. The boat I purchased has a Farymann Diesel which I will probably replace since it is raw water cooled. I also want a reliable engine for transiting the Cape Cod Canal and through channels to Woods Hole and the Islands.
As part of my research on the boat I did look at the advertisement for the boat available in Annapolis. 'Ellen R' appears to be in good shape and well maintained. At this price a survey is essential. I believe the price is high, especially in this economy - you may want to get a feel from the owner if he is willing to come down before spending the cash for a survey.
I also recently bought a Cape Dory 25 for 2K that I will be sailing as-is until the Bristol 28 has been refitted. I may be sick but half of the joy I get from sailing is restoring and working on the boats I own. There are plenty of boats out there in all sorts of condition - take the time to look.
The Bristol I bought was 'Documented' and also does not have a VIN - I plan on keeping her documented - something you may want to look at if you do any extended cruising.
I very much so appreciate the info I am getting! Did the 28 you bought on Ebay have a hull number? According to the Bristol Owners Association there were only like 8 of these hulls made - however; I met the owner last night and he said that there were 30 (his was hull #9..so obviously more than 8). I like this boat very much; but with it being a buyers market and with the price set where it is I might walk away :( . Other boats I have looked at have been 10 years newer, in better shape with the same price.
This Bristol has a "raw water" cooled Farymann Diesel too, are you replacing it because you see it as a liability? (I am about to do a forum search to see if I can find any more info on this inboard)
The Bristol 28 I purchased did not have a HIN. I did learn that this boat was hull number 10. The year of this boat was 1972 vice 74 as I had previously stated. So there is some misinformation somewhere as the hull numbers do not correlate.
The Farymann diesel is a well built sturdy little engine. I am concerned however that the watersides may be somewhat corroded. Since this is also the original engine, although still running, it is past its intended lifespan. I plan on removing and rebuilding the engine and installing it on a little work boat that I use in the bay. Parts are still available on line - I also believe there may be a new complete engine available on e-bay for about 3.5K.
My advice, if you are really interested in the boat, would be to offer 5K depending on the outcome of a survey. I bought, and still own, a Kettenburg 41 for 25K when it was listed for 45K and it had a brand new Yanmar diesel installed.
Good luck on you boat search,
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