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post #11 of 17 Old 08-14-2011
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Chris:
"No slippage at all"?
12 degs AWA?
"35 knots with a 160% genny"

What is this an alternative universe?


If you have "no slippage" you have no lift. It's leeway that gives a keel lift.
ICON my carbon 65'er drawing 12.5' won the Swiftsure Race this year Class A.
ICON cannot point to 12 degs AWA.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. I am convinced you are a sailor at all.

But I'll hand it to you. You are entertaining.
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-14-2011
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Grumpy old man.

AKA, Bob Perry

Lets see, This might be his design

Saga 35



or this
Baba 35



2 world class "Sailing Machine" as quoted by aeventyr60



So I would have to say Bob might know what he is saying.......

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Catalina 25 1984 #4558 Swing Keel, Tall Rig
Sailing Payette Lake, Central Idaho USA
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-14-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Chris:
"No slippage at all"?
12 degs AWA?
"35 knots with a 160% genny"

What is this an alternative universe?


If you have "no slippage" you have no lift. It's leeway that gives a keel lift.
ICON my carbon 65'er drawing 12.5' won the Swiftsure Race this year Class A.
ICON cannot point to 12 degs AWA.

I don't think you know what you are talking about. I am convinced you are a sailor at all.

But I'll hand it to you. You are entertaining.
Maybe his instruments need recalibration. Something certainly does.

By the way Bob - what IS a minimum pointing angle these days? I remember the best old IOR boats were noted for their pointing ability and they were lucky to get much under 30 degrees.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #14 of 17 Old 08-14-2011
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JohnB:
I think the best boats today, say like a TP 52 can point effectively with a AWA of up to 24 degrees. ICON can do 24 AWA. But the old IOR boats, as you say, seldom got above 29 degrees. The Valiant 40 with its cutter rig was happiest around 34 degrees but without the staysail you could maybe squeeze it up to 32 AWA. I think any cruising boat should be happy with 30 to 34 degrees. Many boats like the Cuttyhunk do not have the sheeting angles due to chainplates and jib tracks to get as high as our enthusiastic owner claims . If your chainplates are not on the 12 dgree line off centerline then tyou are going to struggle to get 30 awa.
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-14-2011
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Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
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post #16 of 17 Old 08-17-2011
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I guess Chris doesn't want to play.
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post #17 of 17 Old 04-22-2013
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Re: Cuttyhunk 45

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Originally Posted by Captain Chris View Post
I have one built at Williams Boatyard, Falmouth, Cornwall, England. She is a custom one-off built with an Airex foam core. This is the only boat (ship) I have ever seen that has a bow and stern stem and longitudinal stringers throughout- in a fiberglass hull. These boats, depending on where and what they are made of surpass anything else ever built. Alan Pape's design is nothing short of pure genius. Mine is a Ketch/cutter. Really, they are a shrunk down China Clipper. This one points to 12 degrees apparent, and is superlative on any point of sail. I had her out off Bermuda in approximately 40 foot confused chop, 50 knot winds, and never took any water over the rail, only spray. If this was built in a reputable yard- buy her- you can't go wrong. In fact- Empresa won the Pepsi America's Sail Tall Ship Festival race in 2006 single handed. Took first in class, and first overall. Never been attempted before, and I suspect no one will ever try it again single handed. I can't say enough of these beauties! I would not trade her for a Hereschoff, Oyster or any other manufactured boat. The estimated replacement cost for her is 1.8 M USD. She IS NOT for sale- for any price... Need I say more?

I am also looking to purchase one of these vessels.. is anyone still on this thread?

Thanks!
jamie
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