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Boat Reviews This forum has all types of boat reviews. Take a look, Dream, Agree, Dissagree.... but enjoy.


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  #21  
Old 09-11-2010
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Some good points about the merits of IB/OB. As stated above, with an IB, with a fixed prop, you will definitely have a lot of drag. However, with folding props, reversing is an issue. Where my boat is moored, this is very important since the marina has limited manoeuvering room, and there is often up to a half knot or more of cross current - so poor reversing abilites can be a huge issue.

With an OB, I would strongly suggest you swap out the normal prop for a high thrust prop (if it doesn't have one already). Also, 4 strokes have better economy, are quieter, and most importantly, generally have better bottom end torque than an equivalently rated 2 stroke.

As for the charging issues, most outboards come with, or can be accessorized with, a trickle charger that can usually produce in the neighbourhood of 6 amps.
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  #22  
Old 09-11-2010
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cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough cardiacpaul is a jewel in the rough
a fixed IB std. 2 blade prop is going to result in less than .3kt of drag in ideal conditions... Unless he's beer can racing, and a great sailor, he isn't going to notice it at all.

Fuel consumption.
diesel IB, about a quart an hour.
gas IB, more that a quart, less than a half a gallon an hour.
Is outboard fuel consumption really what one wants to base a decision to purchase a 10k boat on?

Now, please do me a big favor.
The OP stated he'd like to "stay out" for a day or two. Not undoable in a Cat27.
Get out your slide rule, your calc., a voltmeter, ammeter, and a baguhdonuts, and tell me how long a 6 amp charge will take to recharge a "std" say, group 31 100 Amp hr battery from say, 60% level? (single house battery)

Oh, just about 15 hours. Of full throttle no load run time. assuming no voltage drop.
Even with the std 35 amp IB alternator it will take an hour or two of engine operation.

How 'bout a 4D or a couple of T105's? (double the amp hours)

see, thats what drives me nuts.
I'd hate for the OP to stay out a night, have to use, oh, 25% of his house bank, and not be able to recharge adequately for night number two, and HAVE to tie up to 110 and buy a charger and lots o' other stuff. Hey, whadda I know, maybe he wants to do that.

Thats the thing about buying a boat, should probably think of things like that before you stay out over night and have 'em bite ya the next day.
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  #23  
Old 09-11-2010
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Like you say Cardiacpaul, I do not see what is going to be a heavy current drain overnight. A single 13 watt tube for say 4 hours and a low draw anchor light for say 7 hours.

Thats 7 amp hours

What is he going to be drawing by day. GPS ? VHF ? Say 3 amp hours

Garmin 72 0.25amp x 8 hours 2 amp hours
Handheld VHF on standby 0.068 amps x 8 hours 3/4 amp hour.

They can manage 3 days and 2 nights on a single marine deep cycle battery without recharging it with ease. But like I said if they fit a smallish solar panel they are good to go long term and it is SIMPLE.

If I had a pull start 8 horse OB I probably would not even bother connecting the charge circuit unless I knew I had to motor for an hour or more everytime I used the boat.
Oh yeah and they take the handheld stuff home and keep it safe and dry.

Last edited by TQA; 09-11-2010 at 04:32 PM.
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2010
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again, all excellent responses and the sharing of your knowledge is greatly appreciated. I'm kind-of settled on an IB diesel; I'm leaning towards a wheel (but gf is leaning towards a tiller), so this could go either way.

Our big problem now (as early on raised here) is the water depth at our dock (my gf's dad's). He's at the end of Rock Creek in Pasadena, MD. At high tide (such as last night) we measured above 4 feet near shore and probably over 5 feet (longer than our mop handle) at the end. But, her dad said the depth was significantly lower during low tide.

He could extend his pier an extra 10 feet, so we're hoping there'll be some more drop-off. The NOAA chart shows 9 feet in most of the central area near his house... but who knows if that's silted up. We're thinking of renting a kayak/dinghy and doing our own measuring. His neighbor has a sailboat, I guess about 24 or 25' in their dock adjacent to his -- but a little further out (such as would be the case if he extended another 10 feet).

Hopefully, use of this dock will work out. If not, we'll consider renting a slip since we'd really like to try sailing and have gotten enthused.

On a tangent, we were talking to a relative, who we didn't realize, but is an experience sailor yesterday. Regarding price, he said to "offer half". A fair price, I think, should be one where I could turn around and immediately sell at that same price in a reasonable time (say a season or two). It seems owners are having a hard time selling their boats now. I don't want to take advantage; I'm concerned that if I had to sell, I'd just be switching places. The fair price is decided by the market, which is a sellable price, which is what I'd like to pay.

Anyway, if a boat looks good -- say, a 1980's model Cat 27 (the later, the better, i.e. '86); IB diesel with low hours (are 600, 700, 800, under 1,000 low?); good amenities and very good to excellent overall condition. Then, say the ask is $13K. Per the relative, he'd offer $6.5 (that seems really low to me). But, he's waiting for the bargain and is willing to walk away. For us, if we're more motivated, then offer say... 10K or 8K to get to around 10K?

And then, when to do the marine survey? Before a bid (that could get expensive without knowing if a good price can even be negotiated), or after an agreed upon price?

Sorry for the long post...
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  #25  
Old 09-13-2010
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Survey/sea trial usually happens after an accepted offer. We asked to do the sea trial first. No point in doing the survey if you don't like how the boat sails.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 09-13-2010 at 06:38 AM.
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  #26  
Old 09-13-2010
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Instead of going for a survey, I'd recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started, as it will help you determine whether this boat is worth looking at further. If it passes the boat inspection trip, and you and the seller can come to a reasonable price agreement, then you should schedule a survey and sea trial.

I'd recommend tiller over the wheel, since it is simpler, easier to maintain, and reduces the weight in the boat aft...

I'd point out that low engine hours aren't always a good thing. If the owner only did maintenance based on an hourly schedule, it may have been years between oil changes, and that's bad for an engine. Also, lack of use is generally a good way to kill a diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rconn2 View Post
again, all excellent responses and the sharing of your knowledge is greatly appreciated. I'm kind-of settled on an IB diesel; I'm leaning towards a wheel (but gf is leaning towards a tiller), so this could go either way.

Our big problem now (as early on raised here) is the water depth at our dock (my gf's dad's). He's at the end of Rock Creek in Pasadena, MD. At high tide (such as last night) we measured above 4 feet near shore and probably over 5 feet (longer than our mop handle) at the end. But, her dad said the depth was significantly lower during low tide.

He could extend his pier an extra 10 feet, so we're hoping there'll be some more drop-off. The NOAA chart shows 9 feet in most of the central area near his house... but who knows if that's silted up. We're thinking of renting a kayak/dinghy and doing our own measuring. His neighbor has a sailboat, I guess about 24 or 25' in their dock adjacent to his -- but a little further out (such as would be the case if he extended another 10 feet).

Hopefully, use of this dock will work out. If not, we'll consider renting a slip since we'd really like to try sailing and have gotten enthused.

On a tangent, we were talking to a relative, who we didn't realize, but is an experience sailor yesterday. Regarding price, he said to "offer half". A fair price, I think, should be one where I could turn around and immediately sell at that same price in a reasonable time (say a season or two). It seems owners are having a hard time selling their boats now. I don't want to take advantage; I'm concerned that if I had to sell, I'd just be switching places. The fair price is decided by the market, which is a sellable price, which is what I'd like to pay.

Anyway, if a boat looks good -- say, a 1980's model Cat 27 (the later, the better, i.e. '86); IB diesel with low hours (are 600, 700, 800, under 1,000 low?); good amenities and very good to excellent overall condition. Then, say the ask is $13K. Per the relative, he'd offer $6.5 (that seems really low to me). But, he's waiting for the bargain and is willing to walk away. For us, if we're more motivated, then offer say... 10K or 8K to get to around 10K?

And then, when to do the marine survey? Before a bid (that could get expensive without knowing if a good price can even be negotiated), or after an agreed upon price?

Sorry for the long post...
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  #27  
Old 10-18-2010
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Thought I might throw some more wood into the woodpile;

First; "There is PLENTY of room to do routine maintenance unless you're 300lbs.". Now that is funny. Though I would like to see a 300lbs guy work on an Atomic 4 in a C27, or better yet, get himself out from working on it.....lmao

Now, I'll pass on some information that was given to me when I started. You have no real idea of what you want or need until you spend time out on the water with whatever boat you purchase. I happened to start out with a tiller and an outboard. I have slowly made a list of things on my boat that I have said "I wish I had" more than once. After I have listed the same item more than a few times, I then decide that I need it.

As far as battery capacity and regeneration; to the OP, what exactly do you want to run while out for a weekend? I regularly weekend on my Catalina and I have no issues with my setup; which is a simple 1000cca car battery. I have LED interior lights, an LED anchor light and a VHF radio. The only real draw is the VHF and at night the anchor light. The girl and I prefer to enjoy the starlight and sounds of the ocean so we leave the stereo and TV at home. You may not have the need for power hungry devices. Not everyone needs radar, freezers, Tv and surround sound systems in our small sailboats. I charge my battery at the dock and it has lasted over a four day weekend without dropping below 60%.....now, I use a pull start outboard so I have no real heavy power draws to contend with.

As far as hot water, you would be surprised at how well sun showers work.

I guess from my limited experience......I would say start simple and add things as you need them. Pay more attention to the condition of the basics when deciding on your boat. Remember, it is a SAILBOAT, so spend your time and money ensuring that whatever you buy can sail, safely and consistently. Everything else will work itself out. AR
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