Fuel Tank Vent Filter - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Boat Reviews
 Not a Member? 

Boat Reviews This forum has all types of boat reviews. Take a look, Dream, Agree, Dissagree.... but enjoy.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-11-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
trlrtrsh is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Fuel Tank Vent Filter

Recently I have seen a couple advertisements for Fuel tank filters that are designed to remove condensation before it gets into the fuel. They claim that most fuel problems are from water intrusion and that contributes/promotes growth of bad stuff. Supposedly most water enters with temperature change, and raising/lowering the fuel level which creates a low pressure and humidity increases.
Has anyone tried these filters. I went to the web site of one company, and the filters are very simple. They install in the vent line, and are full of a dessicant, purple or blue when they are good, turn pink when they need serviced.
They sound good to me, but a bit pricey for what they are.
Would be interested if anyone has experience with them.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 04-11-2011
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,144
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Please give details. There are several types and I don't know what you mean. Those used on vehicals are not apropriate; they are carbon canisters to control gasoline emmisions and are intended to be flushed by the operation of the car each day. They would not be very effective on a boat. Additionally, the instalation must not compromise the vent system of the tank (bypass venting is needed).

But we're interested!
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 04-11-2011
Irrationally Exuberant
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,300
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 8
arf145 is on a distinguished road
Recent stuff I have read suggests that water from condensation in the tank is not near as common or significant as folks think. The real source of water intrusion is from the fuel pump source itself or from leaks in the gasket around your filler cap.
__________________
Tom K

2000 Beneteau 331
Northern Chesapeake Bay

Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy ~ Steven Wright
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 04-11-2011
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,144
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by arf145 View Post
Recent stuff I have read suggests that water from condensation in the tank is not near as common or significant as folks think. The real source of water intrusion is from the fuel pump source itself or from leaks in the gasket around your filler cap.
Very true, certainly true for diesel.

However, e-10 contains ethanol and can readily absorb water from the air without condensation. Most probably this thread is of no interest (other than your comment) to diesel operators.

Having spent much time with this issue (I am in the gasoline recycling business) I would venture 90-95% of e-10 problems are also due to leaks, as you suggest. However, if a tank is left part-full for a long time in a humid place... well, the dialog is interesting. The following blog post refferences a number of information sources:
Sail Delmarva: Ethanol and Gasoline and Diesel - References

And this one, just for fun:
Sail Delmarva: E-15 Approved by EPA for 2007 and Newer Vehicals
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 04-11-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
trlrtrsh is on a distinguished road
Cool

pdqaltair, Thanks for your comments and response. To be clear, I am not discussing E-15, as it is still under scrutiny for Marine Use, both Gas and deisel. I am not referring to existing problems, crimped line, deteroriated gaskets, etc. as I currently have no current problems with the fuel delivery on my boat.
What I am asking about are the advertised filters/dehydrators being offered. They do put a compelling argument for the need for them out there. As I stated in my original post, they are filled with dessicant that when activated turns pink in color. When I was in the military I was charged with the same type of dehydrators (in theory), they were filled with cat litter type desicant and the blue/pink crystals were for indication of reaching their servicability, and were removed and heated air passed over the desicant till it returned to blue color. This was a protectant for avionics equipment. My question was simply "Has anyone tried this." "If so, your opinions, worth it or not etc."
I am a fairly new boat owner, And am looking forward to positive feed back.
I see a lot of advertising for fuel scrubbing, tank polishing, water seperators clogging. If this simple filter/dehydrator works, then I will try to install one in my boat. I would just like to know if anyone has had experience with them.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 04-11-2011
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,821
Thanks: 9
Thanked 73 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Ive been using a large desiccant trap on my boats since the late 1980s. I used to engineer 'dehydration systems' a long time ago.

There are a few problems that should be noted.
The most common desiccant is simple silica gel. You can obtain 'dyed' Si-Gel which when saturated with WATER VAPOR turns from blue to pink. However most desiccants will 'saturate' not as an 'average' but as a 'frontal zone', the zone 'front' will be saturated (pink) on one side and 'desaturated' (blue) on the other side of the front (called an isotere). The problem is that unless you see or monitor the movement of the 'front' you can easily become saturated and then 'break-through' with totally saturated water vapor .... to see you need a 'clear or translucent' chamber - and that isnt going to be 'fire-proof'.
The other problem is that the desiccant will also aDsorb oil vapor from the 'reverse side' and there is no indicator dye for oil vapor .... so you really need two chambers - one with a silica gel or activated alumina for water aDsorption and a separate chamber filled with charcoal granules to 'protect' the desiccant chamber. .... a wee bit 'complicated' to do the 'correct' job.

Other problems
Silica gel will fracture into a 'dust' if in contact with liquid water ... and the 'dust' will easily 'compact' and will stop the flow of air; so, you really need a vacuum rupture disc installed to prevent 'imploding' the tank by excess vacuum if for 'some' reason the silica gel becomes 'powder'.
Desiccants can be regenerated ..... put into an oven and heat at 350 deg. for 6-8 hours - but any oil vapor that is co=adsorbed will turn to 'coke' (thats why you also need the carbon (bed/chamber) between the tank and the desiccant chamber). I would not regenerate oil vapor soaked desiccant in a 'home/kitchen' oven.

Make it easier on yourself.
Condensation in a tank is only a symptom that the oil is ALREADY totally saturated with water. The principal reason that oil becomes saturated with water is 'chemical equilibrium' through the vent that is in contact with the ambient wet atmosphere, not 'condensing water on the tank walls'.
If you want 'dry' fuel, only buy 'fresh' fuel - from a high turnover 'truck stop', avoid marinas where the fuel is 'old' and possibly water saturated. If you 'must' buy from a marina, seek out those that cater to 'watermen' and commercial folk' as a high turnover marine source is vastly 'drier' than a 'marina'.
Dont top off your tank, keep the MINIMUM of fuel onboard plus some reserve. The less amount of fuel in the tank, the less water 'uptake'.
If 'condensation' was a valid argument, we wouldnt need to drill water wells as all we'd need to do is put empty vented tanks out and they would fill automatically with water ... and we know that isnt true. If you keep the minimum amount of oil in the tank, remove the oil for when long-term non-use, put in only 'fresh/dry' oil ..... you most probably wont need a desiccant trap.

:-)

Last edited by RichH; 04-11-2011 at 10:56 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 04-12-2011
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 31
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
trlrtrsh is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

RichH, Thanks for the speedy reply. You keep mentioning "oil" and I was referring just to the deisel fuel. The information you have supplied is basically what I'm looking for. So far I have not ventured too far from my home Marina, but have plans to do some extended cruizing. Like I said in an earlier post, I currently have no problems with my fuel. I live in Central Calif on the Delta, but I plan to go North to Washington State Puget Sound, and when it gets cold head South for warmth. My concerns are the change of climates does it deserve the attention of preventative action, or just keep a eye on the water trap in the supply line. The information you gave me gives me some ideas on questions too ask prior to and/or if I decide to invest in them. (Right now it's looking doubtfull that I will). Again, thanks for your input, it is spot on what I was looking for.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 04-12-2011
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,821
Thanks: 9
Thanked 73 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Diesel is essentially #2 oil ... the same as #2 oil burned in home heaters.

If you are traveling, you will be consuming and adding 'new' oil.
The 'water' problem usually occurs when the oil (diesel) is 'sitting around' for a long time and in direct contact with the atmosphere.

Fresh fuel is essentially dehydrated by the high temps of the refining process .... let it in contact with moist air and the moisture 'equilibrates' into the fuel. Simple as that.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 04-12-2011
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,144
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Second everything Rich said. I too have used these on chemical tanks but I question the need for diesel.

Please post a link.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 04-12-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,847
Thanks: 10
Thanked 131 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
No first hand experience with the desiccant filter described, but I would want a Racor fuel/water separator in either case. The desiccant could fail and I still want separation. As described, if you take good measures, the Racor is probably fully sufficient.

Whether or not you have sufficient water in the fuel to create combustion or oxidation problems, you may have enough to encourage bacterial growth. Simply adding a biocide at each fill up is the best solution. About $10 worth can last for years.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GS 39 Fuel Tank Vent Line camndon Gulfstar 7 10-16-2013 06:32 PM
Universal diesel Kobuta oil filter is a Fram PH3593A looking for diesel fuel filter dave hirsh Diesel 4 06-07-2010 09:01 AM
Racor fuel filter filter guage Grumpymx Gear & Maintenance 5 08-26-2008 08:10 PM
location of fuel tank vent sailhog Gear & Maintenance 6 07-29-2007 01:21 PM
Holding tank vent.. groundhog Gear & Maintenance 9 06-18-2007 07:37 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:48 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.