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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Boat Reviews
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Boat Reviews This forum has all types of boat reviews. Take a look, Dream, Agree, Dissagree.... but enjoy.


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  #11  
Old 11-16-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Paul,

At the end of the day, ANY brands 40+' boat, really should be able to cross and ocean if properly prepared, people more or less know what they are doing etc.
Marty
I agree. I am also willing to cross the ocean on any 40+' boat right of the box from the factory.

If the money is not an issue and willing to keep the boat for at least 10 years, buy a new boat is the way to go.

In the last 2 years, I have sailed with so many old boats. Every time, there was major crisis in the worst situation that I had to jump in the fix the problem. When you open the panel, it is filthy, messy and spaghetti wiring all over the place. I asked who did this mess, the owner said the boat yards.

Buying a new production boat, at least you will have a decent company behind your toy. You can't put a value of the new boat smell. Besides, new boats have better hull design, better and tight specs, more efficient sail plan.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

I am in the middle of writing a book about long distance cruising based on the experiences of people who are doing it. The remarkable thing is the wide range of boats you see in obscure places in the Pacific or Indian Ocean. There is no make or model that you see a great many examples of.

Don't know your budget, but I get a sense you do not have a great deal of experience in this regard. Having said that, if I were in your shoes I would widen my search substantially. I would not buy a new boat since you are unlikely to know exactly what to ask for. Rather I would look for a boat about five years old that has been set up by a knowledgeable (and rich) owner. I would look first at higher makes like Amel and Halberg-Rassy. With five years' depreciation I suspect the price might be similar to a new Catalina and these boats are certainly better in my opinion.

Interestingly in my research many monohull owners with boats in the 45 to 50' range say they would like to have a good catamaran around 45' if money were not an object. This is interesting considering that these are people with 10k to 100k miles of cruising experience.
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Finished the circumnavigation in early February in Grenada. Have to work on a book project for the next several months so the boat will be waiting for next year.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

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Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
....

Interestingly in my research many monohull owners with boats in the 45 to 50' range say they would like to have a good catamaran around 45' if money were not an object. This is interesting considering that these are people with 10k to 100k miles of cruising experience.
Yes, that comes as no surprise. Most of them are not talking about condos but about proper seaworthy boats like outremer. I guess you would be interested to talk with myocean, an experienced member that just bought a outremer to circumnavigate. Maybe I am confusing things but I think he is a professional sailor and among the boats he had considered was a Norhaven

Regards

Paulo
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

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Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Having said that, if I were in your shoes I would widen my search substantially. I would not buy a new boat since you are unlikely to know exactly what to ask for. Rather I would look for a boat about five years old that has been set up by a knowledgeable (and rich) owner. I would look first at higher makes like Amel and Halberg-Rassy. With five years' depreciation I suspect the price might be similar to a new Catalina and these boats are certainly better in my opinion.

Unfortunately, those 5 year old HR or Swan are hard to come by. When they are on the market, they are not cheap and go really fast. Their asking prices were the same as they paid when they bought it if not more. The 35 to 40% depreciation rate only apply to mass production boats in Charter.

Those rich owners are hardly stupid at all. This is because the new boat price keeps increasing. I knew this very well since I kept looking for a HR for 2 years by checking on the new listing on YW every week and speaking to a broker who is specialized selling HR. Of course there are fire-sale cases, but this is just a luck of the draw in the right place at the right time.

Let's say that you were willing to pay the asking price for a HR, 5 years from now, you need to staring thinking to replace system on the boat. that is another expense that you need to include into the original equation.

This boils down to there is no easy "formula" to buy a boat. This is just like woman or women in our live. The passion toward a particular boat must exist that makes you happy. If it turn out to be a hunter, beneteau, or Catalina, so be it.

Quote:
Interestingly in my research many monohull owners with boats in the 45 to 50' range say they would like to have a good catamaran around 45' if money were not an object. This is interesting considering that these are people with 10k to 100k miles of cruising experience.
This is an interesting observation. I am certainly will keep this in perspective when I am crossing the bridge.

I wish I listened to my father when I was young. Every minute I had, I preached to my children not to make the same mistakes like your grand father and father. In the end they have to make their mistake. As long as the mistake is not fatal, what difference does it makes.

As for Mono-haul and Multi-haul, it is a growing and learning process. Like our women, before I like blonde, I have to experience brunette first or vice versa. May be before I die, I end up with a red head. But I certainly will not take a red head and be done.

I am just say'in.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2012
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Thanks to all of your input. Since my last post a broker friend of mine did recomend higher end boats. I have been looking at the amel 64, based on referalls, reputation, ability and disign for single handed sailing. Also i like the full dodger. I have looked into multi hulls and have heard very good things. However i have also heard they are not set up for single handed sailing. im not really worried about the cost since you cant put a price on a quality boat that you rely on, as well as your skill to keep you alive and handle whatever is thrown at u
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

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Originally Posted by ryusui View Post
Thanks to all of your input. Since my last post a broker friend of mine did recomend higher end boats. I have been looking at the amel 64, based on referalls, reputation, ability and disign for single handed sailing. Also i like the full dodger. I have looked into multi hulls and have heard very good things. However i have also heard they are not set up for single handed sailing. im not really worried about the cost since you cant put a price on a quality boat that you rely on, as well as your skill to keep you alive and handle whatever is thrown at u
Certainly not if you can pay the price

Amel 55 Video - YouTube

Amel is a great boat but if you are on that price region you may also look at any of these boats:


or at the Alliage, Allures, OVNI or Boreal the boats that traditionally are used by French sailors as voyage boats:

Bienvenue chez Boreal

Alliage, chantier naval aluminium : construction de voilier en alu, et bateau à moteur avec coque alu

Allures Yachting

Alubat, chantier de bateaux en aluminium sur mesures, les sables d’olonne, vendée, constructeur de bateau | Alubat | des bateaux en aluminium à vos mesures



HR64 Test - YouTube





Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-19-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-24-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

A used cruising boat will always be cheaper, and will have the kinks worked out. The Morgan OI ketches are very hardy vessels. I've often heard that Catalinas are too built too light for extended deep water cruising.

The Amels are very high-end vessels, and a used ketch fitted out for cruising would be almost paradisaical. 64' is a lot of boat, and some marinas and boatyards wouldn't be able to handle something that size.

A cheaper get-in price can mean some real funds left over for upgrades.

Sailing for extended periods off-shore and anchoring out for long periods with two males and one female aboard is a formula for trouble. The other guy needs his own squeeze to prevent envy and unequal ogling. Sometimes people can make a one male, multiple females, arrangement work, but the women must be very good friends and be willing to share. Especially in the galley.

Last edited by cherev; 11-24-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2012
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Thanks for the input and it would be 2 girls and i. However i dont think my best friend will come or if she does it will be short spurts. I have seen that some marinas would have a difficulty with that but i also have no problem anchoring out in the harbor and taking the dingy into shore for food and supplies. But in bad weather that can become a bit of a problem, but not to bad. Ill be most of my time in europe and the south pacific, where i dont think it will be much of a problem.
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherev View Post
I've often heard that Catalinas are too built too light for extended deep water cruising.
We bought our 400 Catalina as I expected it would take us anywhere on this planet. In the past two years, we have put about 5000 miles on this boat in most any weather you might imagine short of hurricane force seas. My wife and I are not strangers to heavy weather.

This past October at the Annapolis boat show, my wife asked Gerry Douglas if our 400 was capable of doing what we expected. Gerry said structurally, the 400 has no issue taking us pretty much anywhere.

Like any boat, Catalina or otherwise, you will have to outfit the boat for a trip.

One aspect I really like about the big Catalinas is the standing rigging. The big Catalinas have 8 shrouds supporting the mast. Four lowers, two mid and two uppers. The 400, 470 and all the 5 series have the same design and have dual back stays. Even the smaller 315 has the same design.

What is really impressive is the attachments of the shrouds extend down through the deck and attach to heavy beams glassed into the hull near the hull grid. This creates an incredibly stiff shroud system that does not depend on the upper hull, deck or inner bulkheads to support the shrouds and mast. Very little reaction forces are applied through those elements of the boat.

There are very few boats with shroud supports that appear to be as robust as this design. Many boats attach the shroud at the outer hull chainplates that transfer the reaction forces through the hull, deck and bulkheads to the keel step (or reaction post).

Inspection of the shroud system including anchor points is significantly easier than inspection of chainplates buried in the side of hulls as in most boats.

In addition, the forstay attchment is a massive stainless steel structure firmly anchored at the bow extending back and around the bow. Dual backstays distribute the load to the outer edge of the stern hull where its greatest stiffness is.

At this past Annapolis boat show we looked at all the boats, my wife came to the conclusion that our 400 is better than most. The only boat she will replace our 400 with is either a 470 Catalina or a 465 Island Packet.
Hey.. she's the boss.. I am not going to argue..
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 11-27-2012 at 11:39 PM.
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: 45' + blue water cruiser

Could be I was being told about day-sailor versions. People will buy too little boat, and then try to go places.

Hidden (glassed-in) chainplates are bad. They quietly corrode until a load causes a failure. Probably in a real blow.

Stainless steel always belongs in the sunlight and fresh air.

Ryusui, you shouldn't post that a girl will come only for short spurts. Jest.

However, it's not just marina docking that's an issue for larger vessels but also haul-outs. The bigger the boat, the more they charge and the fewer the boat-yards.
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