45' + blue water cruiser

[ryusui]

Cherev thanks for the tip. I didn't mean it like that. But yes I can see how it could be a pain. I may be looking at too much boat for my needs but I do plan on going anywhere and everywhere I can. I would rather go for more than what I need vs go for what works and find out I did need it. That's the main reason for the amel. It should go wherever I wish and stand up well in big blow.

[cherev]

Originally Posted by ryusui

... I would rather go for more than what I need vs go for what works and find out I did need it. That's the main reason for the amel. It should go wherever I wish and stand up well in big blow.

Actually, a tight strong small boat may stand up to a big blow better than an impressive larger one. I wasn't seeking to dissuade as much as pointing out that anything over circa 45' - 47' is a lot of boat for three people, one or two of which may not have really salty experience.

The Amels have a good rep.

[ryusui]

That's the biggest reason I choose the amel. They have great rep and are designed to be handled singlehanded if necessary. The other thing I love abi ut rhe amel is the storage locker or the dinghy in the back of the boat. If been advised when doing ocean crossing you don't want your dinghy hanging off the back of the boat, cause one bad wave and your having big problems. Its hard finding something like that on a smaller boat. Plus i'll eventually be doing charters once I get my captains licence. So a larger boat works out well for that as well

[davidpm]

Where to draw the size line is a tough question. I tend to think of it in terms of what can I single-hand even when I'm cruising with family. I've been with some people male or female that I'm sure can keep going longer than I. On the other hand I've been with some where after the first wave over the bow they go below and are done.
So if you have a very small crew, two or three especially if they are not very experienced, I think that the chance of you in reality being single handing is very high. Between seasickness, exhaustion, injury and fear your crew options can go down very quickly.
So if you agree with the above assessment the next step to think about is how much are you going to rely on power winches.
What it the biggest anchor you can manually haul up?
What it the biggest main sheet you can hoist?

You may decide the extra size is worth it but you are making a choice that you have to rely on the power. Not necessarily a bad choice but a significant one, at least in my opinion.

[ryusui]

Well davidpm I agree with everything you said. That's another reason for the amel it's a ketch rig. So it will be easier than a sloop right of the bat. Also its sail size is alittle smaller than some of the boats ive looked at in the 50 to 55 ft range. Im planning on having atleast 1 crew be seasick and if one gets injured I can endure solo for about 72 hrs with no sleep is what ive found out over the yrs. So I should be good. But im trying to look at this from every angle. Hence the ketch rig and a boat that is designed for single handed sailing. Also im having the other to get asa certified just incase I get severly injured I know they can manage without my help. Odds are that wont happen however its worth it to me to make sure if it does we will be ok.

[Faster]

For me I think I'd choose a smaller boat to start.. do your epic cruise and if at the end of that you're still interested in doing charters look for something more appropriate. You may find your opinions shifting over time and with the experience.

For a crew of 3 or 4 long distance voyaging I'd think 40-45 would do nicely. Certainly today there are boats that size that could still handle charter parties of reasonable size for a short time. Overall costs go down (and up) exponentially with boat size...

[ryusui]

Ok so I have one last question. What is the difference between lead keels and iron keels? It seems that's most of the high end boats use lead and the majority of the more price conscious boats use iron. Besides the cost what are the advantages to either if any and what are the disadvantages if any?

[Faster]

Plenty of discussion on that topic elsewhere on this forum.

Lead is heavier, so ballast can be smaller/more compact.. lead is more forgiving (softer) in a grounding situation but some say that can actually transfer more forces to hull structures.

Many of todays bulbed/torpedo keels couldn't be made purely of lead, lead lacks structural rigidity on its own. Usually they are steel/iron fins with lead bulbs attached.

Iron keels can be a PITA if not properly sealed.. each haulout is a rust scraping and repainting nightmare.. if properly sealed it's no different than lead in that regard as long as you don't compromise the membrane.

Keel bolts can be more easily changed/renewed in most iron keels, very difficult to do in lead keels as they are almost always "J" bolts cast into the keel when it's poured.

Personally I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker (esp with today's newer boats) but for many an iron keel would be.. (We've owned 5 boats so far over the past 30 years, 3 were iron, two lead)

[ryusui]

Well the reason I asked is ive decided that im going to go with a cheaper and simpler boat, since this will be my first large boat that ive owned. Im debating between the Catalina 445 and the beneteau oceanis 55. I love the amel but I feel i'll get more out of doing everything manually vs with a push button. Right now my gut is leaning towards the 445 and it has a lead keel. I like the oceanis 55 but I have some reservations about the quality. It is much fancier than the catalina but its price per foot is way less. Im not sure if the quality is as good. Also I do like the layout of the 445 a lot, also my broker is going to make some modification to her so that she fits what im wanting to do. I never thought finding a good boat would be so hard... but this decision is from yalls suggestions as well. So I thank all of you for your imput and please keep it coming.

[Faster]

Originally Posted by ryusui

..... I'm debating between the Catalina 445 and the beneteau oceanis 55. .....

Nice problem to have!!

FWIW at last year's boat show we much preferred the C445 over the Bene.... but we weren't looking at the 55... big difference in that 10 feet!!