I'm evaluating buying a boat, but I'd like to know how much a new sailboat depreciates over time. I am looking at keeping the boat up to 10 years, so I'd like to konw how much my investment will hold over time!
For example, can anyone tell me list vs resale price of the following models
Hunter 40 foot
Catalina 40 foot
Beneteau 40 foot.
As you can see, I'd like to buy the boat that holds their value the best...so real user experiences would be great to have (buy vs sell...or buy price vs book value)
Depreciation isn't very easy to estimate...as a lot of it depends on the type of boat, the way it is used, the quality of the maintenance, etc. Boats tend to do worse if they are either used very little, or used a very lot. Boats that are used very little usually die from neglect, and boats that are used a lot die from wear.
It also depends on the construction and quality of the boat...are you buying a high-end boat or an entry level model?
Ten years is an awfully long time to make a guess at... but you might want to start by looking at ten year old boats from the three manufacturers and seeing how well they have kept their value.
I don't know that there is very good data on depreciation. I find that the 'Blue Book' data does not really reflect the specifics for any specific model.
Historically, the general rule of thumb was typically stated in a round about way. Typically, commisioning and fitting out a boat costs roughly 15% to 20% of the base price of the boat. Depreciation after the first year was thought to be roughly the cost of fitting out and commissioning a boat. In other words, a one year old boat would traditionally sell for its original base price. Depreciation generally slows down a little after the first year and much more in the year that follows but depreciation then becomes very dependent on how hard the boat was used, how well maintained she was, and how well built the boat was to begin with. Over time, the value of a well maintained, well built boat will level out and may actually increase in value if the boat has had a reasonable regime of long term maintenance and upgrading.
When you talk about the big three; Catalina, Hunter, and Beneteau you are talking about value oriented boats that are built in large numbers. I have had a number of occasions to take back to back look at used boats of the same age and size manufactured by all three manufacturers. My experience has been pretty consistent with different sized boats and has been supported by the surveyors that I have spoken to.
Here is what I found. In a general sense, Beneteaus seemed to look fresher than the other two manufacturers and seems to hold their value best. Depreciation wise Hunter came next and surveyors tell me that Hunter generally does their operating systems better than the other two. Catalinas generally looked worn out much quicker than the other two and did not seem to hold their value as well as the other two. (Catalina claims otherwise, and I must say that my sampling was pretty small, perhaps a couple dozen boats.)
If you are really worried about depreciation, I would suggest that you focus on 4 or 5 year old boats. By then the boat in question have enough use on her that should be able to tell if she has an inherent manufacturing defects and you won't face the high depreciation rates of the first few years. A 4 or 5 year old boat should be fresh enough that you won't get into the major long term high ticket price maintainance items in your 5 years of ownership.
But frankly since the quality of maintenance has a far greater impact on resale than the manufacturer I would suggest that you pick out the boat that you like best. Frankly a big part of the value of owning any specific boat comes from the joy that the boat gives you. Individual models by the big three (or any one else for that matter) vary quite widely. Some sail better, and others offer better accommodations, still others do better on the race course and perhaps others are better seaboats. If you think about your own priorities and decide what you want out of your boat for your sailing venue, then the right choice will be far more obvious to you.
For example given my priorities, (performance, offshore capability, and build quality with less of a focus on creature comforts) I am a major fan of the Beneteau 40.7. This is a no brainer. I have spent a lot of time on one that has had 5 hard years of use (including over 10,000 offshore miles in some very heavy going) and I am extremely impressed with how well these boats sail and how well they hold up. I am also a big fan of the Elan 40 as well.
Jeff H is one of the most knowledgeable people on this board and others as well. However, I still feel he has a Beneteau blindness that comes through loud and clear. I agree with all the points in his post except the comparison of the big three. You cannot rate the three together without getting a little more specific. If the Beneteau you are referring to is the 40.7...go there quickly and your depreciation is probably answered. If your Beneteau is a 23 series, in this case a 393 or 423, I think it will depreciate faster.
I happen to own a 34 Catalina. It is maintained by the same person that maintains a 323. Both are 2004's. They are used about the same and obviously the maintenance is the same. The Catalina is in excellent shape, the 323 looks badly used. Lots of trim fiberglass that is cracked...more like plastic than glass. Interior started out looking better, two years later the Catalina still looks new, the Bene is hurting. Maintenance is more expensive on the Bene because on many repairs you have to remove systems to get to others.
When I bought the boat I was really torn between the two boats.Funny how I got to sit next to the one I did not choose to make the comparison. I asked two dealers, both of which sold Beneteau and Catalina, about the sailing capabilities and also the most bullet proof between them. Both dealers stated that there will be little noticeable difference dependent on how they are rigged, and both stated that the Catalina is the boat that is bullet proof. Hands down.
Face it, they are both entry level boats, as is Hunter. I could have saved money buying the Beneteau, because it is lighter, and am happy I did not.
If I was to look at a 40 I would consider the 40.7...it is a great performer and I don't think you can compare the .7 series to the 23 series any more than you can the .7 to the Catalina. Different strokes for different folks.
Figure 15-20% depreciation on most of the entry level boats in the first year unless you over equip it with electroics, as they depreciate the quickest. After that 5-7 % a year until your 10 year number, and then they can actually appreciate if in good condition. Its like a car. A Chevy or a Lexus with 100,000 miles and no wax is worth a lot less than one with 50K that gets detailed every month.
And the depreciation....if you use the boat it is worth every penny!
I really don't know, but take the example of a Beneteau 40 in your post: a generic Beneteau 40, a Beneteau First 40.7 raced and a Beneteau First 40.7 cruised. I'm guessing that the 40.7 cruised would have a significantly lower depreciation. I also don't really know, but in terms of what I was interested in a boat that in truth is more day-sailed than cruised, the price-performance (no pun intended) of a Beneteau First beat the price-performance of a generic Beneteau. Only time will tell.
BTW, for those who are concerned about storage, consider the theory of suitcase size. What does somebody do what they go on a trip? They take out their suitcase, fill it and go on the trip. Simply start with a small suitcase. We have travelled carry-on for years, including one-week vacations in UK followed by two-weeks sailing in the med, all carry-on.
In the spirit of full disclosure, We have a First 36.7 for essentially day-sailing. If only we were good enough to really sail it.
I would agree whole heartedly with Tommy's observation that the Beneteau 'Number series' (23) are not as well constructed as the First series (the 40.7 is a part of the First series). I probably should have explained that as well.
My comments are based on my observations and the observations that I refer to above were based on jumping from mid and late 1990's, Catalinas to Hunters to Beneteau Oceanis series (the predecessor to the current Beneteau number series). At least looking at the big three of that era the Bene's clearly looked fresher. Like I said I was looking at small sample.
Tommy may be right that the current Number series are just not holding as well as these earlier boats. I also must admit that the used to asking prices that I was comparing were for boats for built in the 1990's which were being sold in the early 2000's.
For what it is worth I have asked a number of marine surveyors about their observations. By and large they all pretty much concurred with my observations. The one issue raised by the surveyors that came up with the earlier Beneteaus was their use of non-US origin gear that is harder to replace off the shelf. I found this somewhat offset by Beneteau USA's stocking of parts at seemingly discounted prices, but of course there is a lot longer lead time ordering from Beneteau than going down to the local chandlery.
I don't think that I do have a case of "Beneteau blindness" as much as I have simply been impressed with what I have seen when looking at boats of a similar age. Tommy may be right that the newer Bene number series boats just are not holding up as well as the crop that I looked at.
After you decide on the boat of your dreams is this subject even releveant. We all have to be nuts to buy a boat in the first place if investment is your goal. Enjoy it and be happy no matter what you decide.
You might want to buy, or borrow in a broker's office, a BUC book. These are supposedly the actual SALE prices of used boats that have been SOLD at those prices. Then you would have to contact the manufacturer and ask for the retail new prices of the same boats in the same years, and that's just the start.
There are other factors that will distort the numbers. For instance, the J/41 could have been hot and held value for years--but it was built for a racing rule being abandoned. On the other hand, a J/24 has been the same hot seller kept the same by class rules for many years. Result? Still popular with a holding resale value, because as long as the boat is in the same condition, the year doesn't really matter.
So if a model changes or gets obsoleted, your value may drop. On the other hand some classics like the Pearson 424 hold very well, because they still are well suited for what they were sold and built for.
Then there are oil prices. When oil goes up, fiberglass goes up, new boat prices go up, and the market for used boats goes sky high and dries up because the new ones are so expensive. That also happened big time when the 10% "luxury tax" was passed on boats (vaguely 1990?) and used boats became more popular and increased in value because new ones got kicked up 10%.
If you go with something "classic" and keep it in top condition--which means more preventive maintenance, more waxing, and more care than many boats get--you'll keep up the resale value. But I think it really comes back to the old yachting statement: If you have to ask, you don't need to know. A boat is gonna cost. Annual haulings, bottom paint...and sails don't last forever. A ten year old boat with two year old sails can be carrying a fast $10-25,000 more in sail inventory, than the same boat with blown out ten year old sails. More so, obviously, for bigger boats and for racers carrying large inventories.
Got a Hobbs meter on the engine, and a maintenance log? then you can document how much time the engine does/not have on it, which may also impress the next buyer. But who thinks of that ten years ahead of sale time.
Yachtworld.com posts the selling price of their listed boats as reported by brokers, but, you must be a broker (or have access to one that is willing to help you out) in order to see this information.
Maybe there is a way to pay a subscription price?
From the YW.com webpage:
"BoatWizard provides a members-only Multiple Listing System (MLS) with co-brokerage opportunities and access to information not available to the public, including our 80,000 boat Sold Boat Pricing Guide."
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