An IDEAL Boat to buy .....

[Franksalt]

An ideal boat for me to buy would be a 23 to a 26 footer, of a known ''Brand'' with a full set of sails, a comfortable cabin and the usual facilities plus the necessary navigation equipment.

The boat has to be easily ''trailerable'' hence bilge keels, or a retractable keel or centre-board are very important. This characteristic is a must, since the bay where I have a mooring is open and when it is too stormy, one needs to haul out the boat for 2 or 3 days until the elements calm down. So the boat that I am thinking of has to have a trailer as well.

Another desirable feature is an inboard diesel engine which is more reliable than an outboard, I guess. An i/b diesel would also be ideal for the occasional fishing trip.

I have put down my thoughts in black and white and if you know of a boat that meets the above specifications (or very nearly), please let me know.

Thanks everyone....

[Jeff_H]

That all sounds like a contradiction in terms. I know of no decent sailing trailerable that also has a diesel. Bilge keels are a paint to trailer as they need to be precisely located on the trailer and its hard enough to get one keel lined up with the trailer bunk.

Jeff

[rbh1515]

I think by bilge keel you mean water ballast (or am I wrong). Sail magazine recently (last 3 months) had an article about trailer sailors that you should read. It talks about all the things you are mentioning. If you can''t find the issue let me know and I''ll find it (its down in my basement). As far as an inboard diesel being more reliable than an outboard I would strongly disagree. The new 4 cycle outboards are very reliable, don''t stink like the two cycles (or a diesel for that matter) and are extremely quiet and fuel efficient. If it needs service, just take it off and bring it in. With diesel you can have fuel problems etc etc etc..... I just bought a 26 foot boat, but it doesn''t sound like what you are looking for--it has a fixed lead keel etc (Colgate 26--huge cockpit for daysailing, small cabin). Again, Sail magazine in another recent issue I think liked the Catalina 25. I would think this boat might satisfy many of your wishes (except the inboard diesel--which you need to forget about). I would think that one reason trailer sailors would not use an inboard diesel is the excessive weight. Thats why they use water ballast--you dump it when you are going to trailer the boat. One web site you may want to try is www.trailersailor.com
Good luck
Rob ~~~~_/)~~~~

[Jeff_H]

Rob- Just for the record, bilge keels are also called twin keels, typically two fin keels actually. Because the keels are canted outboard and there are two of them, they can be shallower in draft. They were very popular Europe and other places with large tidal ranges since they allow boats to "dry out" and stand on their own feet, so to speak.

They fell out of popularity because the two keels have a lot of drag and so they tend to be slow and not especially weatherly.

There is no connection between bilge keels and ''water ballast''. Technically speaking there are two kinds of ''water ballast'' in use these days, moveable (Like the Volvo/Whitbread boats which have their tanks at the point of maximum beam just under the deck level and shift the water with each tack) and fixed like the Catalina/Hunter/Macgregor trailerables which have their water tanks in the bilge. Technically, more properly the fixed water ballast would be classified as a low density internal ballast rather than as a ''bilge keel''.

That does not mean that the original post was not looking for a water ballasted boat.

Jeff

[rbh1515]

Had never heard the term bilge keel--learned something!
I went to the www.trailersailor.com web site and there is a Catalina discussion group. Amazinly to me, the boat apparently has an inboard diesel option with a saildrive. Don''t know if this would limit your keel/centerboard options for the boat though. Maybe there is hope to get everything you want with the Catalina 25.
Rob
~~~~_/)~~~~

[shitehawk]

Bilge keels have been around for a long time, typically in areas with large tidal ranges. There seems to be some discussion about whether they are any good or not.

Look at the following.....

http://www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/html/twinkeels.html

[Franksalt]

Thanks everyone for your help and opinion. You see, I seem to be expecting too much. I did not know that bilge-keel boats do not perform so well and may be somewhat slow.

I may be old-fashioned but I have a soft spot for a diesel engine on a boat. Seems to make the boat more conventional, more sea-worthy or whatever.

I''ll try the sites that you so graciously pointed out. Best Regards.

[sailingdog]

Bilge keels seem to be fairly common in England, but not so much anywhere else. Yanmar does make two different models of Diesel outboards, but they are not sold in the USA AFAIK.

Generally, trailerable boats give up something to make them trailerable. Most trailerable boats that I know of use an outboard for their auxilliary power, rather than a diesel in-board. I believe this is due to the difficulties a fixed prop shaft and prop would cause in making the boat trailerable. An outboard is usually able to swing up and get out of the way of the trailer.

Also, most trailerables are relatively small boats, and the amount of space an in-board diesel and its associated parts would take up is inordinately large compared to the volume of the boat.

[labatt]

Jones2r - The post was from 2001

[NHM527]

Check out the Marshall Catboat 22 foot model. They sail very well.
http://www.marshallcat.com/M22Lines.htm

I started sailing on Cape Cod where catboats are everywhere. We used to see 30+ foot cruising catboats all up and down the US East coast back in the 60s.