Island Packet

[ESSCAPOD]

we are starting on the road to ownership of a preowned island packet 38'', probably around an 89 or 90. We have heard nothing but wonderful feedback so far and would appreciate any additional information that anyone might have.

[cditzen]

Hi there,

not sure how to phrase this, but after looking at a bunch of boats, I decided against the IPs for various reasons. For one, they aren''t my kind of boat (too heavy). For another, I think they have gotten way too expensive for what they offer. If I was going for something along this line of boat, I''d check out Valiants, or maybe a used Lafitte 44. Or, check out Bob Perry''s website for the boat-buying advice service.

...Chris

[Jeff_H]

Quoting from my comments comparing a Benteau 411 to the Island Packet:

"I have always thought that Island Packets are way over priced and way over sold; very often (but not always) to people who are entering the sport. (I base that comment on conversations that I have had with past and present Island Packet owners at boat shows. I am always amazed how many say that an IP was their first boat.)

Island Packets have never made any sense at all for the way most of us use our boats on the U.S.Atlantic coast. They are not good as light to moderate air sailers (the predominant summer condition on the mid U.S. Atlantic Coast) and they don''t seem to be great heavy weather boats either. The 380 really lacks a lot of the key components that I would look for in an offshore cruiser (seaberths for instance). For that matter, I have never been all that impressed with the build quality of the Island Packets(but some people are) because of such items as iron ballast in concrete (recently changed to lead in polyester resin which is slightly better), or the post mounted rudder masquerading as a keel hung rudder with a rather flimsey strap at it''s bottom to mention a couple deal buster kind of issues. I do think some of their details are quite nice for liveaboard types.

To me, it comes down to your goals for buying a sailboat (and people buy sailboats for a lot of reasons most of which are equally valid with each other). If you are just buying a boat to live on and you really do not care how well the boat sails or how much time you will spend motoring, then the Island Packet might work for you.

But if you are buying a sailboat because you really want to sail well and want to be able to voyage from place to place driven on the force of the wind, then there are much better sailing boats out there for the same dollars.

IP are designed around the idea (directly or indirectly) that there is merit to craming a lot of room and weight into a short hull. Based on my 37 years of sailing experience there is no excuse and no real advantage to that approach to yacht design other than perhaps a concern with slip fees.

Island Packets seem to offer a lot room in a short package but what real good is that? None that I know of.

When dealing with wind and wave, a finer hull actually does better. Nothing succeeds like length(read both the Fastnet and Sidney Hobart disaster reports). Stubby is wet and feel greater impacts from each wave.

As I have said many times, weight in and of itself does nothing good for a boat. It does not make it strong, or stable, or comfortable in a seaway. It does not give a boat the ability to survive a big storm or an unexpected visit to the beach.

Heavier boats, that are not carefully modeled, (and in my opinion the IP''s are not all that well modeled) require more sail area to drive their greater drag through the water. In my experience, this means more physical strength is required to sail them and as a result, if you try to sail them well, they wear you out sooner.

Then there is motion at sea. There are two factors that lead to uncomfortable motion, roll angle and roll speed. Navy studies suggest that both have equal impact on the comfort of people onboard boats. IP salesmen make a strong point about its slow roll rate but from observation, they seem to roll through much wider roll angles than other boats around them. I have sailed up behind them and really studied them on windier days (you rarely see them sailing in normal conditions) and they are making lots of leeway and seemed to be heeled more acutely than other cruising boats around them. Looking at rudder angles and at the owner''s faces, they seem to be fighting for control when a true offshore boat should not be.

I know that there are a fair number of IP''s out there cruising and that there are IP owners who like their boat. (Most people do like their boats.) I also know that a lot of these boats are sold to people with big dreams, some who never really learn to sail the boats or become prematurely convinced that sailing is a lot more difficult than it really is. To these people (and I have met quite a few of them) their Island Packet was a graveyard of dreams. As I have said before, from my observations, in the long run, I think you would be better off buying a trawler if you are going to cruise the U.S. Mid-Atlantic coast, than an IP since you will probably spend less time motoring."

Respectfully
Jeff

[MikeMoss]

If you like to sail then take a sail on a IP 38, a Erickson 38, a Tartan 40 CB and maybe a Catlina 380. Don''t listen to the IP brokers. They lie.

I would not have an IP if it were free as I like to sail.

MM

[conchcruzer]

I have an IP 40 and will agree with one of the comments above--that an IP may not be suitable for midatlantic coastal cruising. I'll add that I would also rather have a C&C 99 than my IP for Key West Race Week.

However, I don't do either of these in my boat. I live aboard and cruise the E and W Caribbean full time. This past season, I was able to sail from Venezeula up and down the E Caribbean as far as Puerto Rico. I returned to Venezuela by making a passage South from St. Croix. 90% of the time this past season I was sailing and not motoring. Do I like to sail? I love to.

I have been cruising for the past 20 months. In this time I have seen far more IP owners out here than Catalinas, Ericksons, and Tartans combined. In addition to having a fine boat, you'll open the door to a group of passionate owners that will freely share their experience with their boats.

Some good friends of mine recently completed a clockwise circle of the Caribbean in their IP 38. The name of the vessel is S/V Good Hope. Do a search and you'll find their website.

Best Regards,
ConchCruzer
S/V Eventyr IP40
www.ipphotos.com/eventyr

[chuck711]

Put down your sailing magazines for a minute!

How do you compare Benteau ,Catalinas, Ericksons, and Tartans to an IP??

Do you think these Fin keel light boats can handle days out there with a serious Following sea and wind off your stern quarter? Lets not even get into a wing keel discussion.....You've never rocked rail to rail at anchor on a Benteau .

In the trades a heavy boat will beat any day a Light Displacement Fin Keel. They will be reefed down while a IP will be pushing Hull Speed.

All these boats can make the trip however you'll do it easiers on an IP.

In regards to a Valiant it came in dead last in the 2006 Newport Bermuda
Race........

By the way just a ex-cruiser who has a Fin keel light weight boat.

Esscapod has made a good choice an used IP 38 holds its price and is hard to find on the market.

[sailingdog]

A lot of whether the IP 38 is really the right boat for Esscapod has to do with what kind of sailing he is planning on doing. If he is mainly going to be weekending on the local bay, or daysailing, the IP38 is probably not the right boat for him.

If he is planning on setting sail to see what lies beyond the sunset...then the IP38 might be a very good choice. Before giving him advice on whether the boat is an appropriate choice, it might be good to hear from him and find out what his plans are.

[Dewey Benson]

Originally Posted by Jeff_H

Heavier boats, that are not carefully modeled, (and in my opinion the IP''s are not all that well modeled) require more sail area to drive their greater drag through the water. In my experience, this means more physical strength is required to sail them and as a result, if you try to sail them well, they wear you out sooner.

I have sailed up behind them and really studied them on windier days (you rarely see them sailing in normal conditions) and they are making lots of leeway and seemed to be heeled more acutely than other cruising boats around them. Looking at rudder angles and at the owner''s faces, they seem to be fighting for control when a true offshore boat should not be.

Respectfully
Jeff

Thought I'd interject a couple of "left coast" observations Jeff's Mid Altlantic
analyisis.

On the first quoted paragraph, I agree that heavier vessels require more sail area. Elsewhere I have stated that on full keel heavy designs that horsepower is the name of the game. This may or may not require more physical strenth to sail depending on, the vessels design and her purchase systems

Here, in light air San Diego I have not observed any IP's sailing well to windward either. In fact I had been able to sail over the top of a few of them in my old 1964 CCA S/S 30 foot full keeled centerboard design. (I no longer own the beloved "Athena"). At Jeffs comments on the wallowing of the vessels and especially of the discriptions of extreme rudder angles and helmsmens strained faces; I wonder if some of this might be attributed to a lack of experience in trim and sail selection?

Dewey

[Sonofasonofasailor]

Before this thread really gets going I'd like to point out that it was started 6 years ago and the originator has likely made his decision.

[sailingdog]

Jaime- You're ruining all the fun... I was seeing if any one else would notice someone dug up an old thread.